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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#451

Post by peppermint_tea »

unknownus3r wrote: post #382
mandmandam wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you love America then why would you allow brazen warmongers to put us trillions in debt, profiting immensely while doing so? Do you have any idea how far America's international reputation has fallen? Do you have any conception of the debt that has been incurred in the name of the American taxpayer? Do the lives of millions of dead and tens of millions of displaced people around the world mean nothing to you? Assa…

I don’t see what Assange really showed me that I didn’t know from reading most anything else before his leaks. Your post is highly politically motivated, I’m not emotional about this, just thinking rationally. I agree that the US has overextended its military and is involved in a lot of conflicts and operations that seem very irrelevant and poorly reasoned. I want a revamp of the military industrial complex and a cha…

>> I agree that the US has overextended its military and is involved in a lot of conflicts and operations that seem very irrelevant and poorly reasoned

translation : killed a lot of innocent people. Men, Women and Children.

I am emotional about this, and rightly so.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#452

Post by [deleted] »

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

[deleted]

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#453

Post by pessimizer »

bladegash wrote: post #106
yesbut wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange is more of an editor / publisher. This is akin to the Washington Post publishing the Pentagon Papers. As a reminder, this is why the US wants to punish Assange: > Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-a...

If you think that is the information that he is being punished for is that video, you clearly did not look at what he leaked closely enough. Likewise, if you think leaking the pentagon papers is the same as leaking all diplomatic cables and operational communications from a period of time is the same thing, not sure I can say much to change your opinion.

> Likewise, if you think leaking the pentagon papers is the same as leaking all diplomatic cables and operational communications from a period of time is the same thing, not sure I can say much to change your opinion.

It would be very difficult, because you believe that journalists enabling the distribution of secret government documents means they're not journalists, they're activists. That equally condemns the Pentagon Papers and Wikileaks. You agree with their opinion, which is why you can't say much to change it.

edit:

Daniel Ellsberg: “Whatever Julian Assange is guilty of, I’m guilty of.”

https://www.exberliner.com/features/julian-assange-trial-202...

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#454

Post by vanusa »

shadowgovt wrote: post #395
vanusa wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters here is rule of law (and the fact that we live in a time where it is being increasingly eroded) - not Assange's internal psychological machinations.

Rule of law is being followed. A lower court judge ruled that there was a risk that Assange's well-being could not be safeguarded in the American system. A higher court judge reversed that ruling on assurances from the US that his well-being would be guarded. Now they have an opportunity to an appeal to a still-higher UK Court. What's inconvenient here is that the rule of law is operating in the context that the US a…

It is perfectly fine to debate the prudence, or lack thereof, of the High Court's decision.

My point is that, in this context, speculations as to whether Assange secretly desired this outcome, due to some supposed martyr complex ... are plainly irrelevant.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#455

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

bladegash wrote: post #83

The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…

What does it matter if he's an "activist" or "journalist"? He exposed war crimes. He IS being persecuted and that fact is being waved in our face out in the open. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, that's the problem.

> I consider setting up a website purely designed to encourage leaking of potentially classified information and assisting with the ability to do so as being no different than any other criminal conspiracy.

He exposed crimes committed by war criminals. "Criminal conspiracy" is disingenuous. Furthermore the "classified" label is defined by the organization that committed those crimes. Do you think murdering innocent civilians indiscriminately should be classified?

You seem to be arguing semantics more than establishing any sort of moral or ethical argument against what he did.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#456

Post by mikeyouse »

ruined wrote: post #415
DonHopkins wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you denying that he washed and selectively released Russian propaganda, and also worked with the Trump campaign? So do you believe Seth Rich was murdered then? Edit: roenxi: Spreading the propaganda that Seth Rich was murdered is not "aggressively telling the truth", it's aggressively and mendaciously lying. It's a bit awkward for you to suggest that it's true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich#Wi…

seth rich probably had nothing to do with wikileaks, but there's no doubt that he was murdered. and honestly i can't hold it against assange for being on the lookout or even paranoid about things like that, given his circumstances. being wrong about that simply puts him in the company of a huge section of the political establishment that was promoting the case. i also don't really care if the source of the leak was a…

Just to be more forceful on one point - Seth Rich had absolutely nothing to do with Wikileaks and it's extraordinarily shameful that Assange winked and nodded like he did.

Rich was a low level staffer working for the DNC to help voters find polling stations - he wouldn't have had any access to their email systems (and of course wouldn't have had access to Podesta's emails since Podesta didn't even work for the DNC and it was his private Gmail that was compromised).

Both Podesta's and the DNC's leaked emails came from targeted Spearfishing campaigns, some of the source emails for these were leaked alongside the rest of the contents. (e.g. Podesta's: https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/10/28/b4836dda-...)

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#457

Post by hekette »

jollybean wrote: post #332
lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

"none of the “crimes” happened on US soil" This is essentially false as his ostensible crime relates to participating in the hacking of US systems. By your inference, Russians hacking into US Hosptials would not be committing a crime on 'US Soil' as though that would make a difference. Let's have the trial and see the evidence.

We won't see evidence that can be trusted.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#458

Post by pohl »

pessimizer wrote: post #439
petesergeant wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are you denying he released the truth Yes, 100%. I think the documents he released were all authentic, but that’s a great distance from either being “the truth” or being in service of “the truth”. The majority of propaganda is factual while attempting to subvert "the truth".

Propaganda isn't trying to subvert the truth, whether quoted or unquoted. Propaganda is trying to promote a particular position. Nobody has as a goal to subvert the truth, that's just a caricature of one's enemies. What we do is public relations, what they do is propaganda. It's just a rationalization to disregard the standards that one would normally use to judge information i.e. its accuracy.

Nobody has as a goal to subvert the truth

Seriously? This is priority #1 of anyone with alignment with authoritarian goals. Does the phrase "alternative facts" ring a bell? Ever heard of Joseph Goebbels?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#459

Post by fallingknife »

cainxinth wrote: post #236
lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

> “he’s a world famous journalist with prior work” That’s a claim not a fact. It’s also possible he was an asset for a hostile intelligence service posing as a journalist. I’m not normally one to side with Mike Pompeo, but I agree with his assessment on this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/13/us/politics/mike-pompeo-c... “‘WikiLeaks walks like a hostile intelligence service and talks like a hostile intelligence…

First they said he was a rapist. Then that fell apart. Now they say he's part of a foreign intelligence service. I don't buy that either.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#460

Post by pydry »

bladegash wrote: post #340
pydry wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No, that is not what I said, nor is that what my point is/was. I see no substantial difference. >To reiterate, "Further, I am of the opinion, being someone who was quite literally in Afghanistan when he leaked the information he did, that any probative value of the information Manning leaked was overshadowed by the indiscriminate way in which it was done." I really don't understand what you being in Afghanistan is s…

The comment about being in Afghanistan was intended to convey that assuming information was released putting people in harms way, that I and people I cared about would have been directly impacted.

I was aware of your implication. The US has similarly noisily hinted that people may have been put in harm's way but then they would, wouldnt they?

That is, unless there were somebody they could point to who was dead as a result. Then they would describe what happened.

Or stay silent - if there were no examples.

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