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I just don’t want to be busy anymore

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Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#451
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not arguing whether single payer is a good idea. I'm not arguing that it's tantamount to communism. I'm not arguing that there are many politicians (Obama, included) who are in favor of it. I'm arguing about the feasibility of it in light of naive statements. It's easy for a politician to endorse a policy, particularly a populist one like Medicare for All. It's en…

> I'm arguing about the feasibility of it in light of naive statements. I have directly addressed your question with the fact that already a third of Americans are in a single payer system, and most of the world has a single payer or hybrid system.[1] It's naive to think we don't know how to do it, and that we can't learn something from other nations when we expand it. If you don't think we're capable of achieving th…

Yes, the bill was not passed. Neither were any of the proposals for the last 3 decades. Why do you think that is??

I mean, it’s “obviously” just so easy. Do you have better answers than President Obama? Or President Clinton before him? Or Bob Dole? Or John McCain? Yet with all their knowledge and connections, they couldn’t get it accomplished. Note that in nearly 20 years, Medicare for All bills only made it out of committee once. Why do you think that is?

Perhaps because it’s an enormously complex problem with lots of stakeholders and lots of competing interests. One that doesn’t get fixed by just copying a different model that operates outside of the U.S. constraints.

You still never addressed why those bills don’t pass. It’s like your answer is the trivial (and useless) one that “it’s because not enough people voted for it.”

Saying “we already cover 100MM” doesn’t explain how it can be more than tripled. I didn’t claim it can’t be done, I’m asking why none of the proposals have worked out so far. I’ve never claimed the US “doesn’t know how”, I’m saying they haven’t shown political will to implement it. I’m asking for a pragmatic answer that shows why it hasn’t worked despite previous efforts.

I’m asking for your opinion why that’s the case that nothings has been passed in the last 30 years despite the desire among many, many people to do so. I’ve already outlined a few examples that you just blow past for the naively simple answer. That’s not helpful nor does it demonstrate anything beyond a simplistic understanding of the problem.

I have no problem accepting an answer that actually shows an understanding of the complexity of the problem, even if I don’t agree. I’ll help you: I think the very first problem needs to campaign finance reform. Because without that, any proposed bill that goes against the monied interest is dead in the water. But that’s just the first of many things that has to happen before the bills you’re talking about have any chance.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What other reason is there for a career? A way to make a living doing what you love. I loved programming as a child/teenager. I wasn't paid then.

I love art and music. I'm pretty skilled in a variety of those fields. The reason I don't do them is because programming pays extraordinarily better and can let me have a more relaxed and enjoyable lifestyle as opposed to living in garbage tier slums.

What does that have to do with anything?

I think from the responses you've had to your comment you've now seen that you're in a minority here.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG, until like what Netscape IPO almost no programmers wanted or expected to get rich. It was about a job where they paid you to solve problems so interesting you would have contrived to work on them for free. And even now, I don’t understand why the response to “company will overwork me” is act with bad faith. Just take care of yourself, stop working before the long term costs to yourself your family and your life…

You do realize a career extends beyond programming right?

You're the one who used it as an example. You've been proven wrong.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What other reason is there for a career? A way to make a living doing what you love. I loved programming as a child/teenager. I wasn't paid then.

You also had someone providing for you and covering all of your costs. Once you leave the carefree comforts of childhood and join the rat race the rules change.

What's your point? The discussion we're having is whether anyone would be a programmer if they weren't getting paid well. Clearly many people would.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#455
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not arguing whether single payer is a good idea. I'm not arguing that it's tantamount to communism. I'm not arguing that there are many politicians (Obama, included) who are in favor of it. I'm arguing about the feasibility of it in light of naive statements. It's easy for a politician to endorse a policy, particularly a populist one like Medicare for All. It's en…

> I'm arguing about the feasibility of it in light of naive statements. I have directly addressed your question with the fact that already a third of Americans are in a single payer system, and most of the world has a single payer or hybrid system.[1] It's naive to think we don't know how to do it, and that we can't learn something from other nations when we expand it. If you don't think we're capable of achieving th…

>what evidence would convince you it is feasible?

Short answer: a bill that passes.

Again, I’m not arguing whether it’s technically feasible. I’m saying the US has not yet shown its politically feasible. I think you’re conflating my position on these.

That latter part is a much tougher and complex problem but every bit a necessary part of the solution. So take just a very small subset of that problem: how do you plan on mitigating the insurance industry’s influence in preventing the passage of a bill that goes against their interests?

Once you figure that out, you’ll have dozens of other political concerns to solve before you ever get to consider implementing the technical solution.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#456

It's called depression, not burnout. It's an evolutionary response to factors in your life that lead you towards thanatos and away from eros, allowing you the super-power of obsessive negative thought and absolute joylessness (anhedonia), so you may bide your time and fight them with the abandon of one who no longer cares about their own safety. Some choose to call it a genetic disease. I like to think of it as a val…

Well put.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#457

One thing that helped me is not to care so much about my employer's goals. It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. I think a lot of us want to be proud of the work we do, and we feel that if we slack off, then we shouldn't be proud. But it's the other way around. I think the slackers have it right. You're probably not going to get rich from working…

This is a terrible way to live a life. This cynicism would be evident to others, create a toxic pathologically depressing environment and then pull others down with it. I can’t believe I’m reading this on HN, a place that used to be full of optimism and accepting grand challenges, looking upto leaders and doing hard things others shy away from. I know this is a taboo to compare with Reddit, but lately I have to pinch…

Well, maybe most people have finally seen through what a BS most of the VC/Start Ups are if you are an employee with shitty behaviour from founders/investors that you realize the best way to go through life is to do the same they do, just from the other side.

If you don't own a significant (5%+) chunk in a company, don't do a single minute of non-paid overwork. Do the bare minimum to justify not being fired (and this is key, if they don't fire you for that, it means they accept that what they pay you is being returned to them in work, so why give them more output for the same money?). Save your energy and time and focus on you, your family, your projects. Companies don't care for you, so why the fuck care for them. Get in. Put the minimum that the company accepts for they pay and get the fuck out. Anything else is just bad choice that are have more positives for the companies and downsides for yourself

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#458

Can confirm. Left my job in the software industry with no plans to return. Everyone asks how my break is going and I say “fine”, but I’m retired at 40. The idea of being back at work in some 9-5 or 8-6 where my brain is still trying to solve the problems of the day as I lie in bed are over. Certainly a lot of parents can sympathize with the itch of “if I can get the kids to sleep I can get a few more hours in”. No mo…

I envy you. I love programming but I hate doing it for a living. The minute I can afford it, I’ll quit and never go back.

When I stopped doing it for a living, I started enjoying programming again. Now I build dumb things for my own pleasure, and it's great.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#459
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I envy you. I love programming but I hate doing it for a living. The minute I can afford it, I’ll quit and never go back.

When I stopped doing it for a living, I started enjoying programming again. Now I build dumb things for my own pleasure, and it's great.

Unfortunately, I don’t have any other skills that could earn me anywhere near as much as software. What do you do for money now?

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#460
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I stopped doing it for a living, I started enjoying programming again. Now I build dumb things for my own pleasure, and it's great.

Unfortunately, I don’t have any other skills that could earn me anywhere near as much as software. What do you do for money now?

I run a website that helps people settle in Germany. It doesn't need to pay as much as software dev, so long as I can enjoy a more peaceful lifestyle.
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