‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#451

Post by 0xffff2 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #139

Bishizel wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the req to live within 100mi doesn’t allow workers to fully engage in location arbitrage in the way the workers would like. I think most people want a better work/life balance, which is what all this ultimately represents. I imagine the eventual long term settle is somewhere more in the “wfh, but with team gatherings for a few days once a month” in a lot of industries.

There is one exception to your location arbitrage: those who want a hobby farm. if you need to go to the office every day your hobby farm will be close to the city. If you only go in once a week a 1.5 hour drive doesn't sound so bad and you can move farther out meaning more land for the same number of people who want a horse or whatever. This is only a tiny subset of people though, and is more the exception that prov…

If you're in a major metro like the bay area, 1.5 hours still doesn't get you far enough to afford anything like enough land for a hobby farm on anything short of a FANNG salary.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#452

Post by bluGill » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

rocknor wrote: post #406

bluGill wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a new grad though, I have many years of experience, and a history of being worth paying. I'm not allowed to see real numbers, but I'm told that real pay is around that range by those who do in my company. Note that in India people work longer hours, so per hour you are getting down to less than 50% of my wages.

> Note that in India people work longer hours Grasping at straws here. > I have many years of experience, and a history of being worth paying Seems like your ego can't handle it. Why do you think that there aren't similar people elsewhere in the world? You can't keep throwing random numbers without sources to back them up. The reality is that your job can be done by many others living in a country with lower COL with…

The person I'm comparing to is essentially my equal in ability, except for the things that are different between living in the US vs India.

I know col is better in India, that isn't as big a deal as you think because once you get past food and housing to luxuries to buy things are more expensive there. (Except servants are dirt cheap, while I wouldnt dream of one here )

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#453

Post by thekingofravens » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

I see everyone quitting jobs like FedEx that honestly have nothing to do with remote work (it was never an option) and still probably counting towards this statistic. There are larger forces at play than that debate right now.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#454

Post by rblatz » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

CountDrewku wrote: post #447

rocknor wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note that in India people work longer hours Grasping at straws here. > I have many years of experience, and a history of being worth paying Seems like your ego can't handle it. Why do you think that there aren't similar people elsewhere in the world? You can't keep throwing random numbers without sources to back them up. The reality is that your job can be done by many others living in a country with lower COL with…

>your job can be done by many others living in a country with lower COL with much, much less money Then why isn't it being done by them already? Do you think companies hate saving money and just prefer to throw it away on more expensive employees who aren't any better? Someone has an inflated self worth and ego issues but it's not the guy you're responding to.

I'll give you a hint, it's related to the parent topic. Companies insisting on people being in the office and not remote.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#455

Post by forz877 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #416

forz877 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone you meet at work needs to be your "Best friend forever and always." I just like talking to people. I like being able to go down the hall and solving a problem in 5 minutes that would take 3 days and 3 meetings WFH. I am "friendly" with many people in the office. I socialize with them. They aren't dear dear friends but they are acquaintances that have helped me out of tight spots and I helped them. I can'…

I'm extroverted, actually. We have several slack channels for each of the departments and hierarchies of our org. People say good morning. You can "go down the hall" and ask a question. We still do pair programming. In short, not much has changed from when we were in the office. Once allowed we'll be going out to lunch again. I always made it a point to go out to lunch with people - people I work with now, people I'v…

The point I'm making is that people are different.

Some people make friends at work, others don't. While you may struggle blurring friend from colleague in the office, others may struggle WFH with separating their house and leisure from work. Not everyone has a luxury office to walk into. Some work in their dining room.

There are pros and cons, and those pros and cons change depending on individual circumstances. But ultimately you are working for a company that needs to make money and they need to make a decision. You can choose to stay or leave.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#456

Post by holdenk » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

So one of the things to remember about Google is the desire to increase attrition of senior employees (e.g. those with the most flexibility to move elsewhere). It's.... weird, but it would totally match.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#457

Post by lkrubner » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

throwaway743 wrote: post #134

lkrubner wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"destroy morale for the remaining" This depends on how you define morale. Morale can be thought of as the willingness of people to make difficult sacrifices to maintain community ties, in the sense offered by the essay "Why Strict Churches Are Strong": https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/230409?jou... . In that essay, they make the point that there are no freeloaders in a strict church, and that is what…

I mean, your examples of organizations are homogeneous in their nature, and borderline cult level communal. Unless you're in management or one of those workers who's an over zealous corporate kool-aid drinking yes-man who screams about company culture and has substituted any outside social life with the office and coworkers, these examples might be extreme and irrelevant. We're all slowly dying, and personally, I val…

You're confusing your personal feelings about some hypothetical organization with the separate question of what the definition of "morale" is. That organization will have a level of morale even if you are not a part of the organization.

As to this:

"We're all slowly dying"

That is a double-edged sword. Many people find meaning through the commitments they make: marriage, the military, the nation, their religion, children, parents, friends. Why make a commitment? Because we are all dying and so we wonder "What is the meaning of life?" And for those who find meaning through their commitments, then the fact that we are all slowly dying would be a reason to make more, deeper commitments, not less.

"I value having more control over what little time I have left"

Unless someone puts a gun to your head, no one is taking away your control over your time. Whether you decide to make any kinds of commitments to marriage, the military, the nation, your religion, children, parents, or friends, those are your choices, both if you reject all such commitments or embrace them.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#458

Post by byecomputer » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 11:06 PM UTC

porker wrote: post #420

forz877 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone you meet at work needs to be your "Best friend forever and always." I just like talking to people. I like being able to go down the hall and solving a problem in 5 minutes that would take 3 days and 3 meetings WFH. I am "friendly" with many people in the office. I socialize with them. They aren't dear dear friends but they are acquaintances that have helped me out of tight spots and I helped them. I can'…

They sound like colleagues. As distinct from other employees or friends. Some of my best times were working in a university department. We did all this, though the talking to people outside your team was at proscribed coffee times in the staff lounge and sometimes over lunch. But they remained colleagues not friends. Outside the few parties a year we didn't go round people's houses. We collaborated and fought over wo…

You can be friends with a colleague and also not hang out outside of work. And obviously in life you'll be closer with some co-workers than others, so it's useful to have the distinction of someone being a 'work friend'.

'Colleague' just refers to someone you work with who is of the same rank as you, and probably on the same team. It's closer to 'teammate' or 'peer' than it is to "workmate you have a friendly relationship with". You can dislike a colleague, and you can also barely talk to or really know a colleague.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#459

Post by rocknor » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

CountDrewku wrote: post #447

rocknor wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note that in India people work longer hours Grasping at straws here. > I have many years of experience, and a history of being worth paying Seems like your ego can't handle it. Why do you think that there aren't similar people elsewhere in the world? You can't keep throwing random numbers without sources to back them up. The reality is that your job can be done by many others living in a country with lower COL with…

>your job can be done by many others living in a country with lower COL with much, much less money Then why isn't it being done by them already? Do you think companies hate saving money and just prefer to throw it away on more expensive employees who aren't any better? Someone has an inflated self worth and ego issues but it's not the guy you're responding to.

Because of the article. Remote work is not preferred by many because it simply cannot match face to face interaction.

And I don't know what your problem is, I was merely pointing out the parent commentator was very wrong with the salary numbers they provided, which shows disconnect with reality. I never said that all jobs can and will go remote. Read my comments again, properly this time.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#460

Post by awsthro00945 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 11:26 PM UTC

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #434

awsthro00945 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because if you live in a great place, all those things are available to you without discontinuity regardless of WHO you work for. And how is this an argument for not also getting those things through work? I have many hobbies outside work. I live in a great place where I am able to spend my free time meeting people and doing things outside work. I still want those things from my workplace, too.

Because you have a limited amount of time to invest in certain things in life, and it's better to invest that time independently of your work environment. Not saying that you can't ever have it, just that some day will be your last day at wherever you are, and those relationships don't always follow you to your next job.

The fact that I have a limited amount of time to invest in things is exactly why those things are necessary to have at the workplace.

I like having fun, and I like making friends. Being limited on time, I want to maximize the percentage of time in my life that I spend having fun and I want to maximize the amount of opportunity I get to make friends. It's great that I have personal free time where I can do that, but why would I not also want 8 more hours per day at work where I can also have fun and make friends? It would be silly not to, that almost doubles the amount of opportunity I have to have fun/make friends!

>and those relationships don't always follow you to your next job.

See my other comment in this thread. I haven't found this to be the case. Sure, not every relationship follows you, but that doesn't mean I'm going to forgo the opportunity to cultivate relationships that will follow me to my next job, or even for the rest of my life.