Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution' • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#451

Post by potta_coffee » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:17 AM UTC

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #231

onetimemanytime wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not, but those can be famous last words. Even if AZ works as marketed, it's no where near 100%. Then we have different strains

Nothing is going to ever be 100% safe. Live your life how you want, but I'm personally fine with a little risk and live a more fulfilling life with more life experiences. I ride a motorcycle. It's defiantly not safe, but I've had so many great memories on it that I am fine with the risk.

I rode my motorcycle to the burger shack, unvaccinated, without a helmet, where I doublfisted cheeseburgers and had a large chocolate shake. Life is for living indeed.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#452

Post by scotty79 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:17 AM UTC

corndoge wrote: post #72

scotty79 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because one "low" is few orders of magnitude lower than other "low".

Right, but that's assuming you get the virus; to properly compare it you have to factor the chance you contract the virus in the first place. I'm not saying the math works out better, I haven't done it myself, but I'd bet most people would choose to try to avoid contracting

I think probability of contracting the virus eventually is highest of all the factors involved and ultimately is not that far from 1.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#453

Post by Gatsky » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:30 AM UTC

fab1an wrote: post #133

Looks like this may be a bit more relevant than many of the snarky comments would suggest - the relevant German authority on this said that they have seen a unexpected increase in a specific type of blood clotting issue that usually is very rare: https://www.pei.de/DE/newsroom/hp-meldungen/2021/210315-voru...

Yes, cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, exceedingly rare condition in the general population. It can cause permanent neurological disability and death if not diagnosed and treated.

Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis presents with nonspecific symptoms (eg headaches). It can only be diagnosed with cerebral imaging of specific modalities (CT or MR brain venogram, expensive and specialised tests). From speaking to colleagues in the UK, their hospital system is quite overwhelmed and doctors are repurposed outside their field (eg surgeons looking after internal medicine patients). It is quite possible in the throes of a pandemic to be underestimating the incidence of this condition in the UK.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

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Post by blueblimp » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:42 AM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #434

overboard2 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid evolves to spread itself more effectively. The fewer symptoms it causes, the better it can spread.

This is what 99% of the people don't understand. The virus needs the host in order to spread. The virus doesn't have any other ulterior mechanism that wants to kill humans. This is why spanish-flu virus got weaker over time because as it evolves, if it kills humans rapidly, it cannot evolve. So, nature sorts it self out.

This is a more disputed theory than you think.

http://www.iayork.com/MysteryRays/2007/08/26/rabbits-1-virus...

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#455

Post by azinman2 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:45 AM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #435

azinman2 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That trolly problem is a one off. Having a major vaccine lead to serious issues puts all of vaccines into question, creating a far larger problem spanning time. It's already the case that various sub-communities are hesitant to get the vaccine based upon previous experimentation on their populations long ago, such as the Tuskegee Study.

> Having a major vaccine lead to serious issues puts all of vaccines into question This is false. Problems with AstraZeneca has little to do with any other vaccine. They're engineered entirely differently and mechanisms of action are wildly different.

Tuskegee experiment has nothing to do with covid. Yet that doesn’t stop people from mistrusting vaccines. There are a non-trivial amount of people that think all the covid vaccines are a way for Bill Gates to track you.

When we’re talking about population-level inoculation, you need to maximize trust by minimizing any perceivable harm.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#456

Post by ppf » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:57 AM UTC

finolex1 wrote: post #418

tazjin wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the risk is minuscule compared to COVID-19 itself You don't know this at all - we don't know what age groups are affected here, and COVID is pretty much negligible in many younger age groups. It's best to wait for more data to come in before drawing any conclusions.

Then why not temporarily suspend vaccinations only for those under 40? Or let people have a choice in determining whether the risk is worth it for them.

I would love to have a choice in determining whether the various risks are worth it for me, but my government has insisted on shutting all "non-essential" businesses, and only lifted a 3-month "stay at home" order last week.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#457

Post by Arnt » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:00 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #233

Arnt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that before the cautious testing and approval procedure ? The EU recently approvied and has bought 200M J&J vaccines, I don't remember numbers of the other vaccines. If that vaccine were about as harmful as thalidomide, about 3000 babies would die during birth, and a considerably larger number would be born without an arm or similar.

Vaccines are not that different just because they are for different sickness. And there are no vaccines with any of these side effects, so there is no reason to believe the COVID vaccines will cause anything even close to that. Besides the normal stuff every drug has.

That begs the question: For which kind of medicine is there a reason to believe that they may cause anything even close to that?

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#458

Post by nereye » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:04 AM UTC

qbasic_forever wrote: post #256

raducu wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm set to take the oxford d vaccine, but I could also take the pfizer vaccine. I've had elevated blood markers for clotting during covid-19, and now I hear of this. I'm thinking of taking 75 mg aspirin, before and after the vaccine. On the other hand, the issue is the patients have low platelet count and I understand that this is the way aspirin reduces blod clotting. So, do these patients have low platelet count be…

Talk to your doctor before making decisions. Taking aspirin right before a vaccine might not be a good idea as it can blunt your immune system response, but the whole point of a vaccine is to elicit a strong immune response that builds memory. I know acetaminophen is specifically mentioned as something not to take right before the COVID-19 vaccines (and afterwards, if you can deal with the immune response naturally).

Is there a citation for that (acetaminophen mentioned as something not to take right before and afterwards COVID-19 vaccine)?

From personal experience today (spouse getting second dose of Moderna), the nurse explicitly suggested using Tylenol to handle fever in case it occurs.

Here is a quote from https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinic...:

Management of post-COVID-19-vaccination symptoms

For all currently authorized COVID-19 vaccines, antipyretic or analgesic medications (e.g., acetaminophen, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) can be taken for the treatment of post-vaccination local or systemic symptoms, if medically appropriate.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#459

Post by angry_octet » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:10 AM UTC

complex1314 wrote: post #63

giantandroids wrote: post #8

You do have to wonder if some of this is politically driven. Germany are losing hundreds of life's a day, while in the meantime the UK has administrated 23 million doses (not sure the ratio of those that were AstraZeneca) and not recorded a single fatality or adverse reaction and are seeing infection rates / deaths drop. I can understand caution under normal circumstances, but nothing is normal right now.

In Norway at least, where we have high compliance and relatively few corona deaths, one important point is to keep public trust in the authorities. The worst case scenario would be loss of trust in the vaccine and loss of trust in the health authorities. Then people would not get vaccinated even if the authorities were recommending it. Also the symptoms are bizarre, the deaths and hospitalizations from blod clot have…

Norway is one of the few countries where it makes sense to be extra cautious, as they have excellent medical records and strong control over virus transmission.

It's absolutely mad for Italy, Austria etc.

But this is not a surprise: countries that handle the pandemic well (evidence based rather than populism or dogma) continue to manage the vaccine rollout well, and vice versa.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#460

Post by krzyk » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:13 AM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #389

2ion wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a medically reasonable response that solicits snarky remarks, it's the complete retardation of the official covid response so far, and even reasonable decisions just are landing on a pile of steaming crap now. - billions per week of half assed lockdown vs a few billion more for high quality timeley vaccine delivieries of the good stuff --- of course they chose the lockdown - open schools as if nothing happen…

Let's not forget that the German government resorts to "alternative facts" since the pandemic began just as they see fit. When we had nor masks available last march, they said "masks are useless" two months later they were mandatory "because they are the best thing we have". Recently, a post by the government on Facebook said "AstraZeneca gave us one of the best vaccines ever" just as people started to cancel their a…

> When we had nor masks available last march, they said "masks are useless" two months later they were mandatory "because they are the best thing we have"

Wow, this is exactly how the masks thing played out in Poland. I wasn't aware that this "makes are useless" followed by "masks are mandatory" (with Poland together with a ban on selling them on the biggest platform, big like Amazon is in the US - Allegro).

And now here in Poland we are at the "AstraZeneca vaccine is safe" and we are vaccinating with it, I wonder how many EU countries still use it besides Poland.