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Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#451

Post by prohobo »

nickysielicki wrote: post #179

A lot of people seem to believe that there’s much more to this than there really is. Google has hired a bunch of 28 year old kids in HR and PR, that never used Usenet, that never used IRC, that barely remember AIM, that had a smartphone before they had their own laptop, that don’t understand the internet or technology . And they’re the ones making these decisions. There aren’t rooms full of Google PMs and programmers…

You have a point, but it's not entirely that. For one, the boomers are the ones who still own everything, and they've never given over leadership roles down to the next generations.

There's a combination of a certain subset of millennials who are like this, and the leadership that doesn't care and wants everything to go their way (as it always has).

A large part is also that the mainstream internet is still so new, and people are so poorly educated that they don't understand that they're the bad guys.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#452

Post by ekianjo »

blondin wrote: post #333
Arathorn wrote: post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

sorry this is happening to you guys. i hope this situation gets sorted out. not saying i agree with the decision here, but hn is sometimes so quick to blame google. what surprised me though, is that you guys are aware of abusive content on the network and even put a "moderation" guide in place. so much good faith in people here...

So are you going to remove email clients from the play store if someone sends offensive emails?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#454

Post by vbsteven »

walrus01 wrote: post #288
colllectorof wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you occasionally see more subtle stuff like this: " Since Android 8.0 Oreo, Google doesn't allow apps to run in the background anymore, requiring all apps which were previously keeping background connection to exclusively use its Firebase push messaging service." https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS/blob/mas...

how is this handled for SIP softphones that can run persistently in the background, in a direct SIP or SIP-over-TLS connection to a server? for instance: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.linphone&h... that's just a random example I thought of since I use it, but I can also think of a lot of other Android apps that I'm fairly sure aren't using any client-server communications mediated through google f…

VoIP has always been treated a bit differently to regular apps on both platforms. I vaguely remember about 10 years ago both iOS and Android had special permissions specifically for VoIP apps to run in the background.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#455

Post by Vinnl »

haakon wrote: post #402
Vinnl wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this also affect existing installs, or only (attempted) new ones?

Only new ones. At least my installation is still there.

Thanks. That should limit the disruption, at least.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#456

Post by feanaro »

enriquto wrote: post #434
Arnavion wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first sentence is about Element. The second sentence is about matrix.org

It seems to me that it is the other way round, isn't it? Although having matrix.org be an Element client is extremely confusing. If "matrix.org" is moderated it would seem that the whole protocol is moderated (and thus, not a neutral carrier).

Element is just one of many Matrix user agents and matrix.org offers just one of many Matrix servers.

Each server has the freedom to enforce its own policy. Given that the matrix.org server is a kind of a public face for the protocol, it makes sense that its policies are more mainstream.

There is nothing in the protocol itself (nor in the official Element clients) enforcing any kind of content policy.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#457

Post by imhoguy »

2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #13

Is this google starting to test the waters when it comes to arbitrarily kicking out software they personally don't like? (open source, decentralized, privacy oriented etc.) I might of course be exaggerating a bit here, keep that in mind. - Element and Matrix are growing but still not equipped to fight back at large against this, so it is unlikely to create too much negative press - If Google starts to catch too much…

> Even if these removals are temporary, they can still hurt growth.

I don't think so. A lot of people were not aware of Matrix even, it's geek tech.

Now, just watch how this Streisand effect unfolds over the weekend.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#458

Post by grishka »

oji0hub wrote: post #415
unethical_ban wrote: post #399

Don't forget that F-Droid is a thing, and Android still has at least that much freedom - to install your own software. Who would have thought 30 years ago someone would be saying "People can run any code they want on their computer" as a shocking thing.

Installing software outside of play store is technically possible, but if something contains enough hurdles, most people won't do it, which results in no users and a meaningless platform.

There aren't that many hurdles.

1. You download the apk

2. When you try to install it, it tells you it's from an unknown source and the installation was blocked to protect you

3. You tap "settings" and flip a switch to allow installing apps from your browser

4. You go back and tap "install". That's it. It's done. And you won't need to go to the settings the next time, it'll just work.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#459

Post by corty »

imhoguy wrote: post #450
oji0hub wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing software outside of play store is technically possible, but if something contains enough hurdles, most people won't do it, which results in no users and a meaningless platform.

It is not meaningless, but agreed not something for mass use yet. Similarly like 30-40 years ago with personal computing, now also geeks start the paradigm shift into privacy-aware computing.

I guess at some point Google will close the F-Droid loophole in Android and only allow installations through the Playstore anymore. You know, for security reasons... winkwink

Maybe the real reason will be pressure from the government to hurt the ones like Huawei a little more, maybe it will be the need to squeeze more money, or maybe the need for censorship because those evil alternative app-platforms allow whatever unwanted stuff.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#460

Post by 153791098c »

Uhrheber wrote: post #414

Any reason why the F-Droid version is behind the official one? I mean, you should now have learned that you can't rely on one single distribution channel.

The same reason that software is outdated in many GNU/Linux repositories. F-droid is a repository that builds all software from source on a different schedule than every individual application developer, the google play store is just a platform where the application developer uploads the binary.
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