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School or Prison

schoolprison.com

451–460 of 497 posts

Re: School or Prison

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what else you can do :( it's a really big systemic issue. I think we just need more awareness, first? As someone who has gone through the legal system in the US and was illegally detained for activism and then later accused of false charges (with no evidence) and illegally arrested: I don't think awareness alone will do anything. Everyone knows the Police are corrupt and the city will do little to noth…

What do you think is the solution to this problem? Reading stories like this just makes me angry.

It's going to be a lengthy process and should be assessed from various approaches but I think the following would be a start:

- Removing qualified immunity from all LEO agencies and departments at the the State and federal Level and making them 100% personally legally and financially liable for all violations.

- Require a more stringent screening and continued training process to ensure they are mentally fit to do their job adequately

- Slash their budget and salaries by 50% until these reforms meet certain benchmarks that require unanimous approval in their city/county before any budget increase by no more than 5% each time, which is to be decided how it is funded without police union and lobbyist influence

- Using those funds removed by police budgets and allocated to social workers to act as first responders to calls that pertain to all mental health related issues, and contrast which solutions perform better and allot the budget/funds to those perform better using various metrics and analytics

- Mandate that body-cam footage be on at all times during an LEO's shift in office as well as on patrol and have it accessible to the people without interference--they tried to stall my process until my lawyer got involved which is typical to ensure that a case isn't brought against the officer

- Stop incentivizing mentally unfit and psychologically damaged people to enter LEO: most of them are ex-military veterans that saw active duty in illegal wars of occupation in Afghanistan, and Iraq and were trained for hostile warfare and not civilian Law Enforcement. Screening for certain mental and psychological maladies would probably reveal how mentally ill some of these people are as a result of their combat and trauma.

Personally speaking, I had high hopes for the BLM movement and the situation that unfolded (Blue leaks) in regards to Police brutality this summer but everyone just went back to the divisive identity politics leading up to the election instead of having a commonly held stance that transcends all party politics.

Most people do not realize that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have long history of further expanding the Police State. Biden passed the Crime Bill in the 90s that saw the expansion of the for profit jail system that led to lengthy sentences for petty things like drug possession crimes--all while his son turned out to be a drug addict that used his father's position to collude with other cronys for personal gain. And Harris was an immensely corrupt Attorney General that overturned many cases in regards to police corruption using unscrupulous methods and supposedly made evidence disappear to absolve police from wrong doing.

I don't know if and when people will have had enough to actually do anything and get involved anymore, but the issues discussed so far are simply symptoms of a much deeper systemic governance problem and begins with who and how elected officials are put into those positions of power and how limited options there are for any recourse for non-incumbents or established career politicians to be elected in the first place.

The US showed itself to be a Police state over the Summer, that cannot be denied.

The question is what are YOU willing to do about it and how many people in your community can you get involved and start from there. I'd make an argument for private policing, but that would require a resolve for direct activism to serve as a counter weight to these atrocities that the US populace doesn't possess anymore. And honestly given what we've seen with Blackwater/XE in private military contracting I'm sure the US would find a way to normalize this same system in the Police all over aain

Re: School or Prison

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who were wondering here’s the US recidivism rates as of 2018. Smells like success... „- An estimated 68% of released prisoners were arrested within 3 years, 79% within 6 years, and 83% within 9 years. - Almost half (47%) of prisoners who did not have an arrest within 3 years of release were arrested during years 4 through 9. - More than three-quarters (77%) of released drug ofenders were arrested for a non-…

Okay, this are good numbers. However, I would also draw your attention to Table 7. Only about half of the prisoners released who were re-arrested were re-arrested for violent crimes. So, the question I ask is, are these released prisoners actually getting the support they need to succeed after release, are are they so weighed down by the stigma of prison that they can't reasonably obtain a non-criminal life?

Absolutely the latter. There simply isn't any support for the vast majority of people.

Yes, you can argue that some communities have support groups or employment opportunities specific for ex-prisoners, but this isn't available universally, isn't well funded, and most people won't turn to help even if it's offered. That last part is true of free people as well: think of how many people in need refuse to reach out.

The stigma is real and crime is only ever a few inches away from most people.

Re: School or Prison

#454

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

There are schools as bad as prison, read about Elan

Re: School or Prison

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I got kicked out of class once in high school (affecting my attendance) because I couldn't hold it until the end of the class, the teacher said no, and my choice was between disobeying or whipping my dick out and peeing on the floor. I of course chose disobeying, but I'm pretty sure that the teacher would be far less strict in the future if I went the other route.

"I didn't get into college because I had to use the bathroom during class a lot" - no one, ever Just turn on your voice recorder and go.

Who said I didn't get into college? Not every country works like the US, attendance has nothing to do with college admission.

Re: School or Prison

#456

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

> most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets [..] Why don't we have more outrage against this outdated institution created out of 1600 era values?

You answered your own question.

Re: School or Prison

#457
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia[1] lays out a list of common justifications for imprisonment that feels accurate: rehabilitation, deterrence, incapacitation, and retribution. Different societies may prioritize each of those differently. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest the US has gone long on the "retribution" angle in their approach to criminal justice. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#Theories_of_punishment_...

Something got left off the list, unless "retribution" is supposed to cover it. When people see crimes go unpunished, they form lynch mobs. An unsatisfied angry population is a dangerous thing to have.

That's exactly what "retribution" covers, a sense that justice has been done for the victims and the community.

Rehabilitation: should be obvious, nordic countries are well known for prioritizing this.

Deterrence: again obvious, as noted elsewhere imprisonment has been found to be a poor deterrent in studies but the concept remains as a political argument in favor of harsher sentencing.

Incapacitation: keeping the public safe by preventing dangerous individuals from having the ability to endanger others.

and Retribution, which we just discussed above.

Re: School or Prison

#458

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

I've been to both as well and this is a personal anecdote with little generizability. The experience in different US prisons (and jails for that matter) differs widely - just like schools.

Federal prisons are well known to be cake walks. State prisons are the worst but again differ widely - even within the same state. Typically those with different types of crimes and sentences and ages get put in different prisons, so as you can imagine a nonviolent offender under 35 with a 10 year or less sentence gets sent to a much better prison then a serial killer who's 51 with a life sentence.

So take that dude's experience with a grain of salt. The state wants you to believe prison is hell, but as with most things it depends. The positive experiences I had in prison changed my life. If I had a choice between my prison experience and my experience as a master's student all over again I'd choose prison every time a million times over.

Re: School or Prison

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is because tall, rectangular buildings maximize volume to surface area, whether a hospital school or prison. It is not a form of social control or domination. it is more efficient this way. A one-story hospital would be prohibitively expensive to build in an urban area, and it is not like healthcare is not already too expensive.

This is certainly a sound explanation – but is it a good one? If we optimize school buildings and prison buildings in a way that they end up being indistinguishable from one another, maybe we should reconsider the metrics we are optimizing for.

You are completely missing the point. Try https://www.schoolprison.com/ and you'll see how the esthetic of building can change dramatically while keeping the same requirements of efficiency, cost and safety.

Look at brutalist building as another example.

Re: School or Prison

#460
post #184
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_... More or less the entire French Intellectual establishment argued at that time for "the decriminalization of all consensual relations between adults and minors below the age of fifteen". While I agree that seems extremely stupid, it is based on a morally tenable argument that people under that age could give consent. That may be incorrect but if accepted…

That was indeed what I was referring to. Rather than interpreting your first paragraph as a pardon of Foucault, I consider it a condemnation of the group entire. If your (or their, the french intellectual elite's/literati's) philosophy is so morally vacuous that it fails to recognize the sexual exploitation of children and young teenagers as reprehensible, then it is worth less than nothing. It is an evil. Consent is…

> Power structures and actual power matters too

Talking about power structures while criticizing Foucault is pretty rich.

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