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Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

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Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#451

Post by giantg2 »

rgblambda wrote: post #402
giantg2 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Maybe you're referring to the locks in which case you have a point. But exterior doors in my area tend to have big glass panels on them." Locks, sure. But those don't mean much if you have doors and door frames made of wood and they aren't either extremely heavy or reinforced. "Are they bringing a ladder as well?" A ladder or chair from your own home should work fine. You might be suprised at how often burglars use…

[flagged]

"But if they have some kind of head start, the police advice is to find a secure location from which to call the police. I'll take that over the advice of someone whose seen Home Alone too many times."

LOL why ddo you assume that I'm the latter and not the former?

You can live in your own reality. Clearly talking to you is pointless.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#452

Post by nearbuy »

mleonhard wrote: post #418
nearbuy wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This New Zealand study [1] attempted to look at the crime-lead relation in a place where it wasn't confounded by childhood socioeconomic status, and "failed to support a dose-response association between BLL (blood lead level) and consequential criminal offending". I'm not trying to say the theory is wrong; just that correlations are really tricky to study, it's hard to control for all confounding variables, and it's…

> Blood lead level measured at age 11 years. The harm by lead occurs in the first 3 years of life. High blood lead in early childhood is not detected later in childhood [0]. The New Zealand study uses blood tests performed ten years too late. This flaw makes the study almost useless. Additionally, only 30 of the children in the study had low blood lead, [0] Caito, S., & Aschner, M. (2017). Developmental Neurotoxicity…

That does sound like a flaw, although the paper by Jessica Wolpaw Reyes I often see mentioned that argues lead causes crimes isn't based on measuring lead levels in individuals at all, but on the total lead released by cars during the time studied. That sounds even less robust.

I'm not sure if the paper you linked measures the correlation between blood lead levels in the first 3 years and crime rates because it's behind a paywall.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#453

Post by tracker1 »

giantg2 wrote: post #280
GrinningFool wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This method works for the people who are able to do it (ability, personality, temperament). But it tends to reinforce the idea that those who can't take these steps somehow deserve to be bullied.

Maybe to a slight degree. There are some of those people with the abilities who are willing to stand up for others. Of course, the no tolerance (punish everyone) policies can promote bystanders to remain only bystanders.

^^^ this... What's funny is something a civics teacher said in 6th grade, "If you have the ability to intervene or help, you have the responsibility to do so." .. a few decades later, it's become "don't get involved, get a teacher or call the police."

Plenty of lives are saved every day by those that aren't police, but have the ability to intervene.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#454

Post by tomnipotent »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #447
dr_orpheus wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also echo this as well. I play quite a few violent video games, but not all. I do not necessarily seek out a video game because it is violent, but there are mechanics that I enjoy more than others. I like shooter games (Halo, COD) more than I enjoy fighting games (Mortal Kombat, Soulcalibur). Does that indicate that I have a violent desire is to go out and shoot people? Absolutely not.

> Does that indicate that I have a violent desire is to go out and shoot people? Absolutely not. Perhaps. But does it mean you're more tolerant of violence? And that others such as yourself eventually aggregate to have a collective impact on the broader culture? And what about 10 or 20 years from now, will your non-desire to shoot people still not exist? Neuro-plasticity effectively dictatess we are what we consume,…

> Perhaps

No, which is the entire premise of the linked article we're discussing.

> And what about 10 or 20 years from now, will your non-desire to shoot people still not exist?

Perhaps, but it will have considerably less to do with video games than other life factors.

> Neuro-plasticity effectively dictatess we are what we consume, we are what we do

This isn't what neuro-plasticity means. It means your brain can perform a task with less work, not that you "become" something because the pathways are optimized for a task.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#455

Post by giantg2 »

taurath wrote: post #432
giantg2 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Parents would let us "work it out" if there was a fight.' And now days the school calls the police for minor fights and kids end up with records that can drastically alter their lives in a negative way. I almost wonder if this zero tolerance mindset creates an all-or-nothing mentality in kids when they realize they aren't allowed to defend themselves. And if this mentality (equivocating criminal record and expulsion…

It doesn't help and may accelerate feelings of having no way out, but you also can't be seen as "violence is sometimes okay" when its literally a crime as an adult. There's always enough kids from abusive or neglectful households to make lots of conflict in schools. It used to be (I have heard) that schools and teachers were extremely well respected such that a parent wouldn't go against something a teacher said. So…

' ..."violence is sometimes okay" when its literally a crime as an adult.'

Self defense is not a crime.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#456

Post by viraptor »

14 wrote: post #443
afandian wrote: post #117

I'm one of those people who is entirely bemused by violent videogames and films (I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be bemused by my pastimes too). I'm not trying to argue to stop anyone doing it, but I would really like to understand it better. Many video games are essentially simulators of things that we're prevented from doing in reality, because of the laws of nature or society. Whether that's dropping…

It is because you are actually mistaken. There are BDSM simulators online. I don’t want to create an account to see how exactly the game goes but you can if you like: NSFW and this link seems to hijack the back button https://www.kink.game

The parent comment mentioned sexual violence. Let's just be clear that BDSM is for consenting parties who are turned on by various experiences including pain. That's not what sexual violence / rape is. BDSM or a nod towards it features in many mainstream games. Then again Dishonored did feature a kink scene which turns into a violence/torture scene... it's just not overly sexual.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#457

Post by buran77 »

rcoveson wrote: post #439
buran77 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In real sports such a gesture would be met with widespread condemnation and actual in game punishment, bans, etc. Which is why games following real sports do it the same way. No sports game will allow you to simulate a celebration, or score your points in a manner lacking fair play, trying to replicate real life. Allowing things like "teabagging" without instant ban for the user, even building dedicated humiliating m…

You're not comparing apples to apples. E-sports leagues will penalize you if you audaciously disrespect your opponents. Also, the majority of the most popular e-sports don't include extreme game play distractions like kill cams. In League of Legends, CS:GO, Overwatch, and Dota, a kill does not disrupt the killer's animations (it would be infuriating if it did). Comparing the tea-bagging that occurs in online Halo pla…

You were very selective with your reading of my comment, discarding any bit that inconvenienced your uncharitable and wrong interpretation. Not sure if this is bad faith or a reading comprehension issue.

Throughout my comment I made a few things explicitly clear. That I don't blame the gamers, rather the game devs for including the option and the leagues for choosing to play games that have this. And that many games are fine. You chose to ignore that when making your case.

To your point, plenty of games exicitly have such behavior built-in via fatalities, takedowns, executions, or some signature move and slow motion kill-cam to be shown to the victim usually, all with animations that go beyond "I defeated my enemy" into "I humiliated them". There's only one reason to include such mechanism in a game and that's that they want gamers to use them. A league promoting those games regardless of whether it punishes using that feature still endorses them in their entirety. Those are the ones I'm having issues with.

The gaming and e-sports industries don't do enough to call the offenders out on this behavior. At best they turn a blind eye while still playing and promoting such games. I'm sorry but this is like having Harvey Weinstein or Jeffrey Epstein at your birthday party and thinking it's ok because they didn't harass anyone while you were in the room.

The fact that I still have to explain this already speaks volumes.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#458

Post by giantg2 »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #442
giantg2 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I never said that. Please don't make up strawmans." That's not a strawman, that's the definition of zero tolerance policies in schools - both parties in a fight get punished the same. "And by your reasoning, then bullying shouldn't exist today because the school policies should prevent it, yet it's more rampant than ever." 'I never said that.' What you did say is that victims can't solve bullying and that school pol…

Once again you kept assuming that I support the zero tolerance policy, to then even accusing me of trolling. > If the zero tolerance policy isn't the school policy you were speaking about, then what is? There is extensive literature on the topic in pedagogy and it often applies to adults surprisingly well. - hire psychologists instead of cops - fire any teacher that sees bullying and ignores it on purpose - require t…

You were clearly against the people defending themselves in your original reply (saying it won't fix anything) and want school policies to fix things.

The policies you are listing are already in use! Why hasn't the issue been solved?

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#459

Post by Causality1 »

afandian wrote: post #117

I'm one of those people who is entirely bemused by violent videogames and films (I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be bemused by my pastimes too). I'm not trying to argue to stop anyone doing it, but I would really like to understand it better. Many video games are essentially simulators of things that we're prevented from doing in reality, because of the laws of nature or society. Whether that's dropping…

It is a bit strange. For example, if you're playing Dungeons and Dragons with a group of friends, the choice to murder a child is likely to be met by at worst some groans. Try to have your character rape an imaginary woman, however, and you're likely to not only be kicked out of the game but lose those people as friends as well. I know I wouldn't talk to that person again.

We have a double standard when it comes to imaginary evil that is simply violent and imaginary evil that is repugnant. Make a game about shooting a thousand people and it may win game of the year. Make a game about avoiding prosecution while abusing your virtual pet dog and you'll probably lose your job.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#460

Post by feoren »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #447
dr_orpheus wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also echo this as well. I play quite a few violent video games, but not all. I do not necessarily seek out a video game because it is violent, but there are mechanics that I enjoy more than others. I like shooter games (Halo, COD) more than I enjoy fighting games (Mortal Kombat, Soulcalibur). Does that indicate that I have a violent desire is to go out and shoot people? Absolutely not.

> Does that indicate that I have a violent desire is to go out and shoot people? Absolutely not. Perhaps. But does it mean you're more tolerant of violence? And that others such as yourself eventually aggregate to have a collective impact on the broader culture? And what about 10 or 20 years from now, will your non-desire to shoot people still not exist? Neuro-plasticity effectively dictatess we are what we consume,…

Why are we still using half-baked "doesn't it seem like" type arguments in the comments of a ten year study showing everything you just said is bullshit?
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