Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#451

Post by adamsea » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #372

caoilte wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love the way you've got to reach back literally 36 years to find one example of union violence. The reputation that British unions actually have is for getting shat on by bullying employers.

Pro union people reach back 136 years to find their evidence of violence so i don't see the issue

Yeah but those examples are like, large state-sponsored massacres. And there are lots of them.

In the US, for example:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

I mean it was actually part of a war (at least it’s called such) between companies / government and organized labor!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Coalfield_War

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#452

Post by GFischer » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 8:00 PM UTC

patrec wrote: post #395

valas wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"read some Marx"... do you have some book in mind? Perhaps some good summary? I hear Capital is hard to parse. So far my experience in trying to distill Marx is that he did reasonable assessment of the state of affairs at the time (i.e. identifying main classes in society of 1800s), but then his prescriptions of what to do (socialize means of production) did not work out anywhere. Maybe I'm reading wrong books.

Not, OP, and not well read in Marxist literature either (life is too short), but I can recommend The Communist Manifesto, it's short, quite lucid and of enormous historical influence (and would be worth reading for that reason alone). As you say, the interesting part is the analysis, the proposed remedies do not just look bad in hindsight, after tens of millions of dead bodies.

Yep, I see that I tend to agree with the diagnosis of many such books.

The solutions, not so much.

But they're definitely worth reading.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#453

Post by perl4ever » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

adamsea wrote: post #449

perl4ever wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I was gently teasing and pointing out that the language you used obscured I'd gently suggest it was quite the opposite; used to call attention. "Understatement often leads to ... rhetorical constructs in which understatement is used to emphasize a point. It is a staple of humour in English-speaking cultures." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understatement

“Understatement is a form of speech or disclosure which contains an expression of lesser strength than what would be expected. It is the opposite of an embellishment.” What’s the “expression of lesser strength” in this case? Confused. Also, the bit you quoted continues with this as an example of the sort of rhetorical construct used in understatement: “ For example, in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, an Army offi…

>What’s the “expression of lesser strength” in this case? Confused

Well, that particular Wikipedia article is not a complete guide to the English language or the topic of understatement. Taken in isolation, it doesn't prove the existence of the sort of phrase in question.

I guess if this were in court, I'd lose my case because I didn't spend enough time researching.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#454

Post by sitkack » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 10:18 PM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #328

sitkack wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In mature union relations, they also ensure the long term viability of the business. I knew someone through a friend that was kicked out of the carpenters union for not being good enough. Their accreditation can be quite strict.

I'd like to see where they're ensuring long term viability - every group they work with in the US is either facing a pension crisis or is not thriving.

That is simply not true and a common anti-union trope. Unions should have mandatory representation on corporate boards. Broadcom would be my first choice.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#455

Post by JetSpiegel » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 1:22 AM UTC

javert wrote: post #421

tehjoker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone that likes the New Deal should thank the union organizers and socialists that literally had to fight police in the streets to force the hand of the state. A large enough faction of the capitalists back then agreed to reforms because they feared things were going the way of revolution. In the 1930s, the 1917 revolution in Russia was a recent memory that scared the piss out of them. Bezos would like to continu…

Marxism rewards the vicious and punishes the virtuous. It's not in the interest of virtuous people to have Marxism. It's in their interest to have freedom, which implies capitalism.

Capitalism rewards the vicious rentseeker and punishes the virtuous worker.

Any transfer of wealth towards weaker member of society is forbidden? Should we let babies starve, after all they don't literally pull their own weigth? What about disabled people?

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#456

Post by whoisjuan » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

tallgiraffe wrote: post #440

whoisjuan wrote: post #235

This is just proof that not everyone is following the same narrative that you’re personally following or understands reality the same way you do. It’s beyond me how that job post would make sense to anyone besides someone who is disconnected from the usual contending rhetorics Amazon is involved in. Nobody raised a flag on how that would look like for them? You gotta be pretty oblivious to read that and say “yeah tha…

"This just proof that not everyone is following the same narrative that you’re personally following." Your post is a perfect recursive function.

hahaha

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#457

Post by javert » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 11:34 AM UTC

adamsea wrote: post #450

javert wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post side-steps the issue I raised.

I think their point was that when you said “Marxism rewards the vicious and punishes the virtuous“, what you said could make sense when talking about Marx-inspired ideologies / movements (the USSR, etc), but not so much about the actual writings and thought of Karl Marx himself. I.e. that Marxist scholarship / thought does not have a one to one correspondence with Marxist-inspired social or political movements, of wh…

I think my statement applies, or at least is likely to apply, under any implementation of Marx's ideas, and also has applied under every implementation that has been tried. If someone has a real counterpoint to that I'd be happy to hear it and engage with it.

I'm still kind of talking past the other person, and vice versa, but it's hard to have a good conversation about this, and I think it's important to say something to express my opposition to Marxism (though that's debatable---if nothing good/useful can be said, it's very debatable).

I would not have said anything on most discussion forums, but if there ever was a place where it's appropriate to speak up against Marxism when it rears its head, YC News is it. I think I can voice my pro-capitalist position politely and it's OK here, even if there is no traction in the conversation. I wouldn't do that on, say, reddit; I think it would be rude in that context, unless I can actually foster a meaningful conversation.

> the odds of you yourself wishing to step back and hear with open ears what I’m suggesting is quite low

Valid statement about the Internet in general, but culture can change, and we should strive to be better than that. In my own commenting history there are certainly bright and dark spots. I try to do the best I can.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#458

Post by javert » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 11:38 AM UTC

JetSpiegel wrote: post #455

javert wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marxism rewards the vicious and punishes the virtuous. It's not in the interest of virtuous people to have Marxism. It's in their interest to have freedom, which implies capitalism.

Capitalism rewards the vicious rentseeker and punishes the virtuous worker. Any transfer of wealth towards weaker member of society is forbidden? Should we let babies starve, after all they don't literally pull their own weigth? What about disabled people?

Capitalism rewards workers according to the utility of their contribution. Consider Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, etc.

Rentseekers in the literal sense (landlords) are not that big of a function of the economy. Rentseekers in the figurative sense (companies that use regulatory capture to extract wealth from others) are not a feature of capitalism, they are a feature of a mixed economy.