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Oppose the Earn IT Act

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Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#451

Post by AmericanChopper »

JAlexoid wrote: post #429
AmericanChopper wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I don’t see any country in the world that doesn’t have exactly the same problems. The EU has been considering similar anti-encryption legislation for years. Primarily supported by France, UK and Germany. The main opponents to it in the EU have been NGOs, which mirrors the American experience on this issue. The cynic in me speculates the reason the EU parliament hasn’t pushed the issue further is simpl…

EU doesn't have the authority to deal with things like encryption. American federal government is much more powerful and much less dependent on the states. Also Germany is very, very, pro privacy. Germans would probably lynch any government official that suggested anything resembling Stazi surveillance programs.

> EU doesn't have the authority to deal with things like encryption.

It most certainly does. Security and Justice are very clearly established as areas of “shared responsibilities” in the EU, granting the EU parliament has full authority legislate.

> Also Germany is very, very, pro privacy. Germans would probably lynch any government official that suggested anything resembling Stazi surveillance programs.

Sorry to disappoint, but...

https://www.theregister.com/2017/06/15/germany_joins_antienc...

The EU has also explored a number of backdoor-by-another-name options, including a very concerning Function Encryption initiative [0], and forcing E2EE service providers to refresh secrets to insert government actors into conversations.

[0]: https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/780108

My primary motivation for posting the parent comment was that any EU resident who thinks their governments are above this sort of thing is absolutely wrong, and if you’re complacent and fail to hold your governments to account, this is exactly the sort of thing that’s going to happen. You can’t just read the feel-good press releases and hope for the best. European politicians are politicians too, and if there’s anything politicians of all stripes have always been good at, it’s accumulating power and lying.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#452

Post by wiz21c »

nl wrote: post #431
pdonis wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then just change the question to "Cool, can I take a look at your bank account details?"

Which doesn't work either: "Well the government already knows my bank details"

What I think is that many of us in my country, where government is quite powerful (and still democratic) have reached a level of comfort such that the fact of having some state agency looking at some of my detail is totally acceptable since it doesn't change our comfort.

Now, tell those same people they'll have to pay a tax based on the destination they choose for holidays, and you'll get them in the streets (I'm exagerating a bit, but you get the picture)...

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#453

Post by TomMarius »

JAlexoid wrote: post #420
mrexroad wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knows what most people do in the bathroom at work, yet they still close the stall door.

I bet you don't know that I mostly read HN in the bathroom :D

Coworkers probably have noticed how long you stay!

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#454

Post by krebs_liebhaber »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #301
apeace wrote: post #208

If you want to convince your friends they should support encryption, here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Imagine we're sitting at a bar, chatting. None of us have anything to hide. Then the government passes a law that all conversations must be streamed on Youtube Live, so an agent comes in, sets up a camera at our table, and starts streaming. We still don't "have anything to hide". We're ju…

I think this misses the point. When people say "nothing to hide" they mean nothing to hide _from Law Enforcement_. I think the only counter argument is to demonstrate how close many of our western democracies are to becoming fascist dictatorships. We need privacy because if ever laws are passed that we don't agree with, we need to be able to break them until we can have the law changed. For example, if it was against…

> I think the only counter argument is to demonstrate how close many of our western democracies are to becoming fascist dictatorships.

What bizarro alternate reality do you live in where this is the case?

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#455

Post by MaximumYComb »

kube-system wrote: post #444
jay_kyburz wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got me interested in the subject so I did some searching. This document, while doesn't address speed as a factor of accidents directly, does seems to show that speed cameras do push down Australia's fatality rate on the roads. (I'm Australian) https://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/2010/is_039

Of course, from a physics perspective, lower speeds means less force in an accident. To take an extreme example, if we set a nationwide speed limit at 1 mph (1.6 km/h in kangaroo units) and enforce it completely, we might not have any traffic fatalities. What if at a 5 mph speed limit, one person dies in total across the entire country? Do you say that driving at 1 mph is safe and driving at 5 mph is putting lives at…

Higher speed makes all road behaviours riskier. I'm also from the Kangaroo states and while I know of not a single person who likes getting a speed fine I think the vast majority agree that having some speed limits makes things safer.

Australia doesn't have the same cultural views as America with regard to freedom. We have high taxes, virtually no guns, heavily enforced traffic policing, etc. On the Wikipedia page for road death per 100000 population Australia is about 5 compared to the US at 12. A large number of Americans seem to be culturally ok with this as long as the government doesn't interfere with their life. Hacker News has an international audience and you often see the different value systems at play in the comments.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#456

Post by jay_kyburz »

bananasbandanas wrote: post #449
jay_kyburz wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Wikipedia. " In 2018, the autobahn rate of 1.7 fatality per billion traveled kilometer is less secure than both the French one at 1.4 per billion traveled kilometers, and the British one at 1.4 fatalities per vehicle-miles traveled[27]. This means the risk of fatalities per traveled vehicle kilometer is 20% higher in Germany than in France, and near 92% higher than in the UK. "

Seems they are cherry-picking their cases somewhat. This graphic [1] shows a comparison of European countries with Germany pretty much in the middle. [1] https://de.statista.com/infografik/16765/todesfaelle-auf-aut...

I can't read that one, but I did read a few newspaper articles on the topic and it sounds like there is a lot of debate around the issue. I can imagine its almost impossible to take into consideration all various factors like road conditions, and local cultural issues, and quality of cars and everything. I'd also like to know how much the spend building and maintaining the unrestricted stretches of road, I would imagine you don't want to hit a pothole at 180km/h

But my personal view is that sacrificing safety so people can get from A to B a little faster is not worth it, and perhaps it's not clear whether or not speed is a big factor, but why risk it? Whats the rush?

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#457

Post by [deleted] »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #405
surround wrote: post #121

“A Parable” by Perry E. Metzger (1993) > There was once a far away land called Ruritania, and in Ruritania there was a strange phenonmenon -- all the trees that grew in Ruritainia were transparent. Now, in the days when people had lived in mud huts, this had not been a problem, but now high-tech wood technology had been developed, and in the new age of wood, everyone in Ruritania found that their homes were all 100%…

> Mujahedeen Secrets (first release: 2007), Al-Queda’s own encrypted messaging software. Those developers aren’t going to respond to a US court order. Even with that, you are now forcing the terrorists to roll their own encryption. The likelihood of finding an exploit in Mujahadeen Secrets is likely much higher than finding an exploit in Apple Messenger or WhatsApp or something by djb or Moxie, etc. In addition, Muja…

[deleted]

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#459

Post by brian_ »

mrexroad wrote: post #371
el_dev_hell wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this argument. My normal response to "I have nothing to hide" is: "Cool, can I take a look at your browser search/reddit history?".

Everyone knows what most people do in the bathroom at work, yet they still close the stall door.

But what if it's a glass door.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#460

Post by phendrenad2 »

jedberg wrote: post #139
cevn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you. I've never understood how she garners so much support in progressive Cali of all places.

California is not as progressive as you might hope. The cities are full of progressives, but outside the cities is very conservative. You have to be fairly moderate to win statewide office. Newsom was a reaction to Trump, but sort of an aberration. More than half of our governors have been Republicans, including Regan, who went on be President and a paragon of the GOP. Since the 80s 14 out of 30 years has been Republ…

Even the cities are full of people who are progressive right up until the point that it affects them. Just look at the NIMBY problem we have in SF.
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