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Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

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Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#451

Are they going to regret having 4,000 micro services now?

It would be interesting to see the ratio of how many micro services an org maintains vs the number of engineers.

I think this could be an interesting metric to apply across the board.

R = # of micro services / # of engineers

If R >= 1, this is potentially problematic and may indicate engineers being unable to work with the code of their peers. Operating in this regime would be viewed as risky. R can go to infinity very quickly if you go down this path without very deliberate planning, involving the consensus of both the entire management and engineering staffs.

If R I think R could also serve as an arbitrary bus impact scalar for the org chart.

Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#452
post #414
post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a downturn though. It is a collapse.

It's more like a pause. What makes you think it's a collapse?

I mean, a downturn is generally considered to be down by 10%, maybe 20%. Quantitatively different, but not qualitatively different. Adjustments, but things still generally continue as planned.

A collapse is dropping by close to 50% or more, like Uber's demand. It's suddenly playing an entirely different game, it becomes a qualitatively different business.

If this isn't a collapse, nothing is.

A "pause" would imply things will return to normal as soon as things are "unpaused". If you cut 3,000 jobs and 45 offices, those are not just magically reappearing when things are "unpaused".

Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#453
post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lucky for them they can afford these taxis to get everywhere. They can't afford not to! > I am happy to walk a while to get to the closest bus stop so I can get to the tube. You're lucky that you have access to walkable pavements, busses, and a tube. That's a lot of privilege! I'd sure they'd be happy to use those as well! But many people don't have access to those things, and if they want to get anywhere they need…

Sorry, out of curiosity but where are you from? Where you can't walk or cycle 10-20 minutes to a bus stop?

I live in semi-rural Cheshire - we do have pavements and busses (but the busses take hours to get anywhere). We don't have anything as amazing as the tube!

If I want to get somewhere outside my village in less than a couple of hours I'd have to use a taxi or drive.

But if you go to for example some parts of the US, they literally don't even have pavements let alone busses, let alone tubes.

They can't even walk to their local shops in some cases. They're trapped without a car or taxi.

Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#454

Are they going to regret having 4,000 micro services now?

It would be interesting to see the ratio of how many micro services an org maintains vs the number of engineers.

A couple of years ago it was roughly 3 service per engineer.

Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#455
post #371
post #368

What in the world did Uber ever need that many people for?

When I was an intern at Google maaaany years ago, a mentor of mine described what it is Google does with all these engineers: "Well see, we discovered a hose that money pours out of. It's called 'online advertising'. Now what we do is spend half our effort trying to make the hose pour faster, and the other half trying to find another hose." Uber figured out the 'Uber for X' pattern. Now they're trying to optimize it,…

Yeah, Google invests in everything and then fails fast. They're worried about missing the Next Big Thing™ after seeing Microsoft miss the early web.

Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#456
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Lehman Brothers, the waves came every few weeks. On Tuesdays, HR fired business people, and engineering people cleaned up the mess. On Wednesdays, HR fired engineering people. On Thursdays, HR fired each other. It allows you to ramp down without pandemonium.

I don't know whether it's an urban legend or not, some HR people were asked to write their own emails firing themselves at Lehman.

If you broke labor laws while laying yourself off, would it be grounds to sue the company afterward since the actions were taken by an employee of the company?

Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I'm not saying anything about anyone's intent, but replacing "man-year" with "person-year" is a painless, traditional-grammar-friendly way to go gender-neutral. It is not painless: it is dissonant and takes another syllable. One might argue that is worth the pain and stylistic cost of infelicitous phrasing in order to be sex-neutral or welcoming or whatever, and that might indeed be the case. I think that language…

> It is not painless: it is dissonant

You'll get used to it in about 5 minutes.

> and takes another syllable.

Seriously, the amount of time people who pretend to be hard and rational loose their minds over things like "one syllable."

> Persian, for example, is a genderless language: it has no 'he' or 'her,' no 'waiter' or 'waitress,' no 'actor' or 'actress.' And yet I think most folks would say that Iran is far less gender-neutral than any English-speaking country.

That's a straw man. Asking for gender-neutral terms when referring to groups of people does not equate to asking for gender-neutral culture. Take it from a trans person, that is _not_ what most of us are asking for.

Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#458
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like a pause. What makes you think it's a collapse?

I mean, a downturn is generally considered to be down by 10%, maybe 20%. Quantitatively different, but not qualitatively different. Adjustments, but things still generally continue as planned. A collapse is dropping by close to 50% or more, like Uber's demand. It's suddenly playing an entirely different game, it becomes a qualitatively different business. If this isn't a collapse, nothing is. A "pause" would imply th…

Oh, did you mean Uber and not the economy as a whole?

Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#459

Developers at unicorns: even in the best of times, do you feel more expendable than you've felt at other jobs? We always are amazed at the number of developers at companies like this. (the numbers I've seen are old, but I guess out of 22,000 employees, it was something like 5000 engineers?) While that allows you to build in a more robust way than a smaller company, it seems like there's no shortage of developers work…

As someone who has hired many engineers and PMs, and runs a hiring budget today, there are some reasons to feel at least fairly secure if you're an engineer at a growing company:

- Building a high-quality product is a longterm investment and most technology companies know that. As a result, in my experience companies who expect growth would always prefer to keep engineers and PMs as investments.

- Companies generally find it hard to hire Engineers and PMs that meet their standards, especially in competitive markets like the SFBA, NYC, Boulder/Denver, Seattle, Austin etc. (You can argue whether that's caused by overly stringent hiring standards - that's a much more complex question). As a result, companies are somewhat more likely to "hoard" engineers if they expect that they'll need them to grow.

- Because engineers in these markets are expensive, it makes economic sense to spend to improve their productivity. If I have 100 engineers on my team and I can make them all just 1% more productive by hiring an additional engineer who focuses solely on internal tools or open source libraries that improve developer QoL, that's arguably money well spent.

- Many products at scale are more complex than one might expect from the outside, which demands a lot of ongoing product/engineering effort to maintain. If you're working on something that has a credible path to revenue or clearly makes/saves money now, your job is probably fairly safe.

This all assumes that 1) the company wants to keep you, and 2) the company is growing, even modestly. Once the financials go downhill companies will cut directly to the bone in order to survive, and at that point nobody in any industry is safe.

(edited for formatting, thanks @mkl)

Re: Uber cuts 3000 more jobs, closes 45 offices

#460
post #267

Developers at unicorns: even in the best of times, do you feel more expendable than you've felt at other jobs? We always are amazed at the number of developers at companies like this. (the numbers I've seen are old, but I guess out of 22,000 employees, it was something like 5000 engineers?) While that allows you to build in a more robust way than a smaller company, it seems like there's no shortage of developers work…

I've never worked for a true unicorn but I've been in companies that got a sudden success and grew way too big way too fast. I think you can tell from the inside when a company loses its way. As you mention, suddenly you have tons of teams working on what seems to be fairly niche aspects of the company's product. You have man-years worth of work going nowhere as projects get scrapped mid-development. You start having…

For what it's worth, this isn't unique to unicorns. Almost company successful enough to get to the scale of tens of thousands of employees likely has huge amounts of waste within it. The situation you describe of niche projects being scrapped after several person-years of effort had been invested, incomprehensible management hierarchy, and no coherent strategy perfectly matches my first job out of college, a year at Sprint in 1999. Me and two other new hires spent a year doing next to nothing on a team of 20+ building a complicated Java service with a purpose I never understood, but which had been going on for about a year, with half the team made up of contractors. Pretty sure I never wrote any actual code, though I did have to fill out time sheets every week. I had two managers, neither of whom I ever talked to. After a year, I got a 15% raise and a promotion. Then soon after I found another job and quit, our project got cancelled, but everyone on the team just got moved to other teams doing similar "work".
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