MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions • Hacker News Board

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#451

Post by cognitive_1337 » Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 2:20 AM UTC

mygo wrote: post #434

TomVDB wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do this through elimination if the application lacked the usual extracurricular items on an application due to being poor...

From this point going forward it is no longer a usual extracurricular item. The school that they are applying to has specifically told all applicants that they don’t want to hear about their subject test score. It would be unusual to include it, not to mention blatantly violating application submission instructions, which applicants are expected to carefully follow. In any case, his name is “cognitive elite.” If he i…

>If he is who he says he is, then he would have find other ways to prove his eliteness/worthiness if subject tests were not being considered

No, that's completely wrong and totally incorrect!

The SAT II Writing subject test was the only way for me to make up for lack of AP English, which is basically a prerequisite for the school hosting the world's top English and Rhetoric departments.

>maybe he would have taken that same time and initiative to do something else to make his application stand out.

Nope, I would have simply crossed MIT off the very short list (Stanford, Cal, MIT) of extremely niche institutions fortunate enough to be considered within my purview for eventual attendence.

MIT's anti-meritocratic, clown-world decision to ignore SAT IIs makes me furious. To hell with MIT and their woke, filthy Epstein-tainted staff/faculty/endowment. They are pulling up the class-mobility ladder on kids like me while pretending it's for the sake of social justice.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#452

Post by cognitive_1337 » Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 3:42 AM UTC

whotheffknows wrote: post #355

fallingknife wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's entirely the point. The people bitching about how the SAT isn't fair aren't smart poor people who are being beaten out by upper middle class losers, but rather upper middle class losers being beaten out by smart poor people. They tell themselves that the test isn't fair, but a part of them knows that they could never get into the 1500's even with all the prep in the world, so they try to get the admissions…

As someone who went to a boarding school on scholarhsip after moving from a bad public highschool and couldn't afford the $1600 SAT prep classes that preprogrammed in solvers in your calculator, I agree with you in general and deeply resonate with this argument. However, my initial thought was that MIT maybe has so many perfect scores it's useful at this point and not really a differentiating factor. For example they…

>sailing terminology

I've never been sailing but had no problem with the terminology because I read books. Books reflecting our civilization's Greco-Roman and Anglo-American historical ties to seafaring.

It's a form of cultural genocide to foment linguistic amnesia regarding the source domain for so many metaphors and narratives.

Nice use of "the Bronx" as a dog whistle for 'muh poor helpless minority yoof chilldrunz'. Guess what, smart kids of any color can read Treasure Island. Even in the Bronx, you can check out a copy of Moby Dick and 20000 Leagues Under the Sea. Even in landlocked Iowa, HS classes read Homer's Oddesy and Kon-Tiki.

Your unreasonable, emotional bleating about how we all need to lower our expectaions of non-sailing children is insulting to those of use who bothered to learn everything we could in spite of divorce, poverty, etc. and came out ahead.

Your unkind assumptions are full of holes and don't hold water; they are not seaworthy and should be scuttled forthwith.

The idea one can only learn about nautical terminology by literally being on the water is asinine and untrue. If you can't learn sailing terminology except by acutally sailing, you lack the capacity for abstract thought required for scholastic aptitude.

Removing sailing terminology is a way to subsidize illiteracy and pretend non-sailing kids are so stupid they need to be coddled with softened expectations.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#453

Post by mygo » Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 4:08 AM UTC

cognitive_1337 wrote: post #451

mygo wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From this point going forward it is no longer a usual extracurricular item. The school that they are applying to has specifically told all applicants that they don’t want to hear about their subject test score. It would be unusual to include it, not to mention blatantly violating application submission instructions, which applicants are expected to carefully follow. In any case, his name is “cognitive elite.” If he i…

>If he is who he says he is, then he would have find other ways to prove his eliteness/worthiness if subject tests were not being considered No, that's completely wrong and totally incorrect! The SAT II Writing subject test was the only way for me to make up for lack of AP English, which is basically a prerequisite for the school hosting the world's top English and Rhetoric departments. >maybe he would have taken tha…

It just seems to me that MIT has looked at their data and saw that subject test scores are not a key differentiator between students who do well at MIT and students who do not. You’ve already mentioned MIT is niche. Is your alma mater with the top English and Rhetoric departments dropping these tests, or is MIT doing so? If subject test scores are not a differentiator of success at MIT, why should MIT make students go through with them, especially if that time and effort can be put towards doing other things that actually are better indicators? Maybe programming projects, etc, or whatever their case may be. Call it woke but maybe their actual numbers support their decision?

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#454

Post by totalZero » Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 5:14 AM UTC

chad_strategic wrote: post #448

totalZero wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be sure of something that you cannot prove?

I said I couldn't prove it. If I was an investigative journalist and or I had significant amount of time, then I would look into it.

"...I can't prove it, but I'm sure..."

You said you can't prove it AND that you're sure.

This is not a good way to think.

In the words of Mark Twain, “It’s not what we don’t know that gets us in trouble. It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.”

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#455

Post by totalZero » Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 5:15 AM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #425

totalZero wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be sure of something that you cannot prove?

Provable is a tiny subset of true. Much truth is accessible just by looking.

"Unprovable but true" has often turned out to be "false," if we look to history.

This is the reason that scientific epistemology is reliant on empiricism.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#456

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 5:15 AM UTC

totalZero wrote: post #454

chad_strategic wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said I couldn't prove it. If I was an investigative journalist and or I had significant amount of time, then I would look into it.

"...I can't prove it, but I'm sure..." You said you can't prove it AND that you're sure. This is not a good way to think. In the words of Mark Twain, “It’s not what we don’t know that gets us in trouble. It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.”

[deleted]

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#457

Post by cognitive_1337 » Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

mygo wrote: post #453

cognitive_1337 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If he is who he says he is, then he would have find other ways to prove his eliteness/worthiness if subject tests were not being considered No, that's completely wrong and totally incorrect! The SAT II Writing subject test was the only way for me to make up for lack of AP English, which is basically a prerequisite for the school hosting the world's top English and Rhetoric departments. >maybe he would have taken tha…

It just seems to me that MIT has looked at their data and saw that subject test scores are not a key differentiator between students who do well at MIT and students who do not. You’ve already mentioned MIT is niche. Is your alma mater with the top English and Rhetoric departments dropping these tests, or is MIT doing so? If subject test scores are not a differentiator of success at MIT, why should MIT make students g…

>MIT has looked at their data and saw that subject test scores are not a key differentiator between students who do well at MIT and students who do not.

Objection. Assumes Facts Not In Evidence.

Following the OP link reveals no such analysis, only a statement SAT IIs are being suddenly being ignored because "We believe this decision will improve access for students applying to MIT." That's coded language, 100% typical for their woke, clown-world admissions functionaries.

>maybe their actual numbers support their decision?

Maybe we should be verifying the actual numbers instead of swallowing whatever just-so story MIT plops out to justify the woke thing they wanted to do anyway.

After reviewing other HN articles from MIT admissions, such as “Picture yourself as a stereotypical male” (which includes the blatantly racist gem "A Good Night’s Sleep, A Hearty Breakfast, and Being White"), along with "Black Lives Matter...until they don't", and the Epstein fiasco, it becomes very clear MIT doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#458

Post by chad_strategic » Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

totalZero wrote: post #454

chad_strategic wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said I couldn't prove it. If I was an investigative journalist and or I had significant amount of time, then I would look into it.

"...I can't prove it, but I'm sure..." You said you can't prove it AND that you're sure. This is not a good way to think. In the words of Mark Twain, “It’s not what we don’t know that gets us in trouble. It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.”

Well anybody that quotes Mark Twain, wins the battle.

But I will politely quote Ben Folds Five: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y1wm7CFRCQ

Some cherry pop music for these crazy times.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#459

Post by pcvarmint » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 6:42 AM UTC

It was over 35 years ago, so it has absolutely no influence on me anymore, but I achieved a perfect 800 on the SAT math achievement test, along with a 5 on the Calculus BC.

But on the regular SAT, I only achieved around 1300 total, and the math part was somewhere between 780-800 (did I have a bad day?).

I never completed college, but I have been successful nonetheless.

I think that there is more to one's ability than simply achievement test scores, grade point averages, or college degrees.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#460

Post by SkyBelow » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

_fq4v wrote: post #218

SkyBelow wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once they are in college, the impact of parents is quite minified. So if you have a stupid whose default academic potential is 10 but has a parental multiplier of 2 for having involved parents and another kid whose default academic potential is 15 but has a parental multiplier of 1 for parents who don't care, once they get into college and the parental multiplier goes away the one who has a 15 should do better than t…

> Once they are in college, the impact of parents is quite minified What an absolutely ridiculous thought. Literally our entire personality, our study habits, and our grit come from our parents.

Apologies. I meant the ongoing direct impacts like forcing you to get up in time for class, enforcing a curfew, consistently encouraging time to be spent studying. The impacts on the changes to a child, are another impact, and one that is even harder to account for.

Take a simple example of waking up in time for class. You can have a college freshman who was taught by their parents to be up on time. You can also have a college freshman who always depended upon their parents to wake them up and is thus oversleeping.

The former seems more in line with the true potential, while the latter is a temporary benefit from parents. A kid who taught themselves how to wake barely on time will do worse than a kid whose parents makes sure they wake up with time to spare when parents are present, but if the parents don't instill the values of waking up on time to the latter child, then in college the former one will do better.