Live data from Hacker News

I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

slate.com

451–460 of 463 posts

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#451
post #450
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you asked about motive, and that's different from how I responded. I do need to get better at constrained writing, and to learn even really basic level management type writing, and while this is certainly a goal, a degree is also something I want; I... would like to do some graduate-level work, and that seems difficult without an undergrad. Also, a degree is an important plan B... I mean, as long as I'm employed…

No worries about being off-topic. I’m more than happy to listen to your unconstrained writing. I always enjoy your comments and find you have a unique and valuable perspective. Anyway, what sort of graduate work would you like to do and why? And I’m surprised your academic performance in high school is still a hinderance. Do you also have not great test scores? If you could get into someplace reasonably prestigious,…

>Anyway, what sort of graduate work would you like to do and why?

I actually don't have a project in mind at the moment. I have in the past wanted to do a lot more with pushing forward open source diagnostics tools, (and with proving the ESD problems in the way most people handle physical servers) - but I don't know that is what I want to do now; it's been a while since I've been serious about the physical layer, and it's really really unstylish right now; it would be better done once the outsourcing pendulum swings back to insourcing.

I am interested in graduate level work in part because my impression is that my work style would be a better fit; my impression is that if you do something recognized as really pretty great every now and then, they forgive you failures in the meanwhile. Like industry. (I also think I'd be more comfortable going to school with graduate-school age people than with undergrad-aged people. I'm pushing 40 at this point.)

>And I’m surprised your academic performance in high school is still a hinderance. Do you also have not great test scores?

Only okay. I'm held back by pretty terrible math test scores. almost average GRE quantitative reasoning (95th percentile verbal, which is good, but not good enough to make up for an average quantitative) I did pretty okay on the MAT, too, but I don't remember the score, and anyhow, if I want to do something with language or the arts, I really badly need an undergrad. I can mostly read okay and can talk about themes of the classics as well as an arts major, (though, uh, I probably cant speak of the criticism of those works the way they can) - but everything else in the arts I'm pretty terrible at.

(I do have plans to take the LSAT this coming year, with little study. I actively studied for the FE exam last year, but found I have another year of math before I can even try. The LSAT looks doable; I mean, I would be surprised if I do well on it, but I'd give myself better than even odds of doing better than average on it.)

I think bringing up my knowledge of basic maths up through, you know, at least GRE math levels is a moderately high priority, but I haven't quite figured out how.

>If you could get into someplace reasonably prestigious, would you go back to school full-time? Or is being able to go to school while still working important for you?

If I seriously thought that I had a 90+ percent chance of graduating... and I do think that the admissions committees are pretty good at judging that sort of thing, yeah, I would be willing to spend four years on it.

This, though, I think is the crux of it. They won't admit me 'cause I don't have a 90+% chance of graduating. Yes, it seems horribly unfair that they hold my bad behavior of 20 years ago against me, but the fact of the matter is that I still don't have that level of discipline.

I suppose that's another reason I want to go; I see this lack of discipline as a big weakness, and... well, where do I go to learn it? I mean, the good colleges could be said to not teach that sort of thing 'cause they filter out people who don't have it on the front end, so I guess I'm in the right place? but maybe not availing myself to the right bits of it? I mean, there's a very large chance that this will simply be something like handwriting, something that I will be terrible at for the rest of my life, and that I simply work around by not doing the things that require discipline, but... like even with handwriting, I spent a few years at calligraphy as an adult before I gave up on it.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#452
post #27
post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

We are in this now. First year in college, still undecided what to do, but interested in something design/art/writing. Our suggestions to choose something that might be profitable was a huge stress factor that pushed her towards depression and we decided to back off. She had always surprised us in a good way, and she has proven to be very good a connecting with people, organizing, making things work. I think she’ll b…

Design offers an easy path to a profitable career. A specialization in UX design would easily earn your child a lucrative position in any tech company.

Even writing - something I pursued - offers a path to a stable career if you move towards copywriting and content. A few years in an agency as a copywriter and all sorts of options open up, some highly lucrative ones (creative director/strategist).

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But..you can get a six figure salary with an in-state public school too.

Agreed but the host of smaller concerns that dominate high school college choice advice (eg pick a place you feel you fit in, yadda yadda) make a lot more sense if your debt is a tiny fraction of your future income. FWIW I went to CMU (non-CS) for some squishy reason, like it "felt right". I realized I needed a better degree for taking on 30k debt partway through freshman year and transferred to CS. The education was…

> I spent so much time learning and working that I did very little else

Funny, I did the same thing (+ applying for internships/jobs/research) and had zero debt and 4 internships under my belt. And yet...I only got into 2 state schools (my safeties) and went to the easier one. I guess I'm not as good because I couldn't get into a CMU-tier school?

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#454
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking your comment to its logical conclusion, then, no one should become an electrician. Too dangerous. Low (relative to a degree) pay. Well, who then is going to fulfill this necessary role?

Perhaps people who really want to be electricians because they like the trade itself?

And how do people decide they like the trade itself? Fine line there. How are people to know about the trades if all they hear is "go to college"?

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed but the host of smaller concerns that dominate high school college choice advice (eg pick a place you feel you fit in, yadda yadda) make a lot more sense if your debt is a tiny fraction of your future income. FWIW I went to CMU (non-CS) for some squishy reason, like it "felt right". I realized I needed a better degree for taking on 30k debt partway through freshman year and transferred to CS. The education was…

> I spent so much time learning and working that I did very little else Funny, I did the same thing (+ applying for internships/jobs/research) and had zero debt and 4 internships under my belt. And yet...I only got into 2 state schools (my safeties) and went to the easier one. I guess I'm not as good because I couldn't get into a CMU-tier school?

> I guess I'm not as good because I couldn't get into a CMU-tier school?

That's not my suggestion, any I'm sorry if you took my post that way.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I spent so much time learning and working that I did very little else Funny, I did the same thing (+ applying for internships/jobs/research) and had zero debt and 4 internships under my belt. And yet...I only got into 2 state schools (my safeties) and went to the easier one. I guess I'm not as good because I couldn't get into a CMU-tier school?

> I guess I'm not as good because I couldn't get into a CMU-tier school? That's not my suggestion, any I'm sorry if you took my post that way.

I'm not sure what your suggestion is then?

I don't see why people would choose to go to the effort if they didn't see that way.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#457
post #435

> While other parents cheerfully promise that “if you get in, we’ll figure out the money part,” That is literally the worst mindset to go in to this about. I profoundly want to see college be free for all, and debt zeroed out. Failing that rather utopian vision, the smart bet is to get a degree that you can pay off in under 10 years without a miracle. I plan to save up enough to help my kid out, which might well invo…

>Failing that rather utopian vision When I went to university in the UK in 1983 university was free, both undergraduate and graduate, there was a means tested grant for living expenses and student debt wasn't really a thing. So it's possible. On the downside there was only so much money from tax hence only about 15% of the people got to do undergrad degrees and postgrad was maybe 10% of that.

the downside there was only so much money from tax hence only about 15% of the people got to do undergrad degrees and postgrad was maybe 10% of that.

I’m not sure this is true; were there any cases of kids who got 3 A’s at A-level (back when that meant something) being turned away because the colleges were full? It was actually the case that if you got the grades, there would be a place for you. Nowadays it’s different of course, but that is because of lowering standards both in the exams and in the entry requirements.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#458
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Failing that rather utopian vision When I went to university in the UK in 1983 university was free, both undergraduate and graduate, there was a means tested grant for living expenses and student debt wasn't really a thing. So it's possible. On the downside there was only so much money from tax hence only about 15% of the people got to do undergrad degrees and postgrad was maybe 10% of that.

the downside there was only so much money from tax hence only about 15% of the people got to do undergrad degrees and postgrad was maybe 10% of that. I’m not sure this is true; were there any cases of kids who got 3 A’s at A-level (back when that meant something) being turned away because the colleges were full? It was actually the case that if you got the grades, there would be a place for you. Nowadays it’s differe…

Yes if you got good grades you got to go. That was the main criteria for the limited number of places.

Whether that's a good system or not is debatable.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#459
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the overall sentiment because I am born well-enough-off and I agree that you are basically signing away your health or even life (after all, no regular mechanic will have to fix a car in a shootout). OTOH, lots of people don't have my fortunate background and loving but poor parents can only do so much. Housing and food being taken care of and a paycheck on top is a very good incentive if the other choice is to…

Wouldn't building a society where people don't have to make such critical choices out of desperation be the best way to tackle this problem?

Yes, but until this is accomplished, military service is a viable options for a lot of people.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I profoundly want to see college be free for all, and debt zeroed out. If you don't mind, can I ask some questions to expand upon this? First, does this count living expenses? Many students can save greatly living at home, but this requires going to a college near your home, for there to even been a college near your home, and decent enough relationship with the parents/guardian. If we don't cover room/board/etc. it…

These are my observations/opinions based on both graduate and undergrad school in the US. (1) In this utopian world, college owned dorms would be part and parcel of the free college. This allows control of the costs rather than allowing landlords to profit off of the university. The US has massive issues with expensive housing, even around rural universities. (2) I'd set the limit at, say, 6 years. 5 years isn't unco…

>I think the lack of a wide college education has reduced the discourse in the country (prior cheap college in the US was largely contingent on the Cold War and the GI bill; it's very complicated, but I do think it helped us collectively in the 50s-70s).

I feel in this case, waiting for college is too late and the improvements should be done at the grade school level. Only a fraction of the population goes to college and as such even if the education from college was perfected, it would only apply to that fraction of the population. While controlling costs may help increase that fraction some, it would not help with those who find college not in their future due to academic limitation instead of financial ones.

Overall, my own personal problem with this proposal comes from my own experience at college, where I saw numerous people who took 5+ years doing so because they prioritized fun over education. Taking minimum course loads, partying instead of studying, etc. I think much stricter requirements on academic achievement would be needed for me to be willing to support such a plan.

What do you think of a shorter term solution of allowing student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy?

Post reply on HN