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We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

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Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#451

Post by Kim_Bruning »

Freak_NL wrote: post #397
willis936 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don’t have the data on hand or the time to hunt down studies that may well not exist. That shouldn’t keep people from knowing what they know. City biking regularly gets up to 15 mph. No I don’t have a citation. Falling over the handlebars is likely when coming to a sudden stop. Brain injuries are not going to be rare occurrences in such cases. No I don’t have a citation.

> Falling over the handlebars is likely when coming to a sudden stop. Only if you are riding a bicycle completely unsuitable for commuting or general urban use; like a mountain bike or racing bicycle. Commonly used bicycles in Denmark and the Netherlands look like this: https://omidbikes.nl/wp-content/uploads/mat-zwart-7.jpg Note the handlebars and upright rider position that basically prevent going over the handleba…

I still prefer reverse-pedal brakes (terugtraprem).

Of course, even then, as a teenager I still managed to get myself into some interesting situations a couple of times. But never went over the handlebars :-P

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#452

Post by selimthegrim »

systemtest wrote: post #169
cgrealy wrote: post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

I live in a 750 year old European city. The medieval center is 1 kilometer in diameter. They wanted to make the center accessible only for cars of residents and suppliers of stores (up to 11am for suppliers). There are four underground parking garages directly surrounding the center and the walking distance from a garage to any location is never more than 450 meter. Free wheelchairs are provided from the garages. Thi…

This isn't Nürnberg by any chance?

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#453

Post by brnt »

magduf wrote: post #413
JibJabDab wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 mph is far, far faster than "casual biking". Most people can't maintain 20mph much less 12mph. You need to change your frame of mind to be more inclusive as it seems you're thinking of people decked out in biking shorts/jerseys with water bottles and all geared up. The context we are talking about here is not that kind of biking. Also keep in mind, jogging can cause traumatic injuries. But I agree, biking does pos…

>20 mph is far, far faster than "casual biking". Most people can't maintain 20mph much less 12mph. Maybe if your country is flat as a pancake. If there's hills, then yes, people really can hit 20mph, even with casual bikes.

You are perhaps confusing the sport of cycling with cycling-the-mode-of-transport. When I lived abroad, it seemed very difficult for people to understand the nuance, and difficult to see how missing the nuance was holding back bike-usage in commuting.

In NL, the average is ~20kph for muscle-powered bikes on bikes like [1]. Sports bikes like [2] are not usually used in commutes and considered as dangerous as scooters if used at speeds of 20mph. E-bikes legislation takes 25kph as the limit above which the cyclist is required to follow certain extra rules, and of course muscle-powered cyclist reaching that speed should perhaps also be legislated accordingly. The reason it isn't is difficulty of enforcement, but there are people advocating a maximum speed for bike infrastructure [3], at 25pkh.

[1] https://omidbikes.nl/wp-content/uploads/mat-zwart-7.jpg [2] https://s3-wielrennen-xjspucykgif.netdna-ssl.com/welke_wielr... [3] https://www.fietsersbond.nl/nieuws/een-maximum-snelheid-op-h...

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#454

Post by Kim_Bruning »

Konnstann wrote: post #392
rapnie wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is addressed in the article I referenced: > David Roberts: The Dutch don’t wear bike helmets. How safe is it to ride a bike in the Netherlands? > Chris Bruntlett: We — like you — live in a place where helmets have been mandated by law, because they’ve been accepted as a commonsense safety device, normal as a seatbelt. But the Dutch show that [for them], safety in infrastructure, safety in slowing cars, and safet…

I've biked for most of my life in the US, and while I agree cars are a bigger problem for cyclists than anything else, describing helmet use as "armor" against cars is ridiculous. I wear a helmet when on a bike because I've had my skull fractured falling off of a bike, with no cars in sight. A decent helmet costs what, $30?

An old rusty stations-fiets costs Eur 30, too. So then that helmet is looking a bit overpriced?

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#455

Post by ghaff »

willis936 wrote: post #401
baumy wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The benefits of lower barrier to entry aren’t worth the increased, unnecessary risks. Every study I've ever seen contradicts your statement here. You are all over this thread making strong, sweeping claims about bike safety and your only supporting data point seems to be "KE = 1/2mv^2". But there are entire cities in Europe where biking with no helmet is the norm, lots of people do it every day, and serious acciden…

Firstly, I am not making sweeping claims. I am making a very narrow, specific common sense claim. I have not seen a single paper that refutes the safety benefits of a rider wearing a helmet. Helmets reduce brain injuries. Does this need a citation? Secondly, there are a lot more than two factors at play to make the "cyclists killed per billion of km of bicycle travel" number. Culturally bikes need to be accepted. I d…

You're also making the claim that bicyclists should be forced to wear helmets. That is what people are primarily disagreeing with.

And, yes, people are sometimes forced to take other steps that are primarily about their individual safety, such as wearing seat belts. I mostly disagree with those laws as well.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#456

Post by aidenn0 »

adrianN wrote: post #425
aidenn0 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a very mild clime, but still don't bike when it's rainy. What do you suggest gear-wise for bicycling in say 5-10C but wet? I have a 30 minute bicycle commute that I'd like to do more often. A typical waist-length jacket leaves most of my body wet, but a longer jacket is awkward to bike in. If it's over 10C, I can just wear shorts that don't absorb water, but under 10, it gets quite uncomfortable.

5-10C but wet is easy mode. Use a rain jacket, rain pants, and rain spats (optional). It's harder when it's warm and wet, as you can choose between getting wet from the rain, or sweating under your waterproof gear.

Warm and wet is easy because I just change clothes at work. There's a shower at my office.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#457

Post by carapace »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #303
brnt wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Dutchman who's lived in a few places abroad, the cycling 'problem' is quite simple: it needs to be the norm. No helmet, because neither do you require them for pedestrians. You can cycle in all weather, just as you would walking (a hard mental one, my non-Dutch partner can't get over the idea cycling is for sunshine). Public space design must start with safe (no sharp turns, looking at you France!) and separate…

> electric biking is expanding your reach a few times over. Electric bikes are motorcycles, and I don't want vehicles with the speed and acceleration characteristics of a motorcycle in my bike lane, if you please. postscript: my very concerns for my safety seem to be getting voted down a lot considering that our friend the Dutchman here has given a rather nice reply recognizing the substantive nature of this conflict

Electric bikes are not motorcycles. However, you're right that they're different from non-motorized bikes. And I agree with you that they can cause issues.

I got a eBike (Bionix brand, it's been great!) when I was commuting across town and got sick of riding the bus (these days there's always somebody watching TV on their phone without headphones. It was just a matter of time until I lost it and slapped one out of someone's hand, and I really don't want to be that guy on the bus, y'know? So I bought an eBike.)

I'm a very defensive cyclist and one of the first rules I made up for myself is, "Do NOT use the acceleration boost to catch changing traffic signals." I saw that people (drivers, pedestrians, and other cyclists) around me mis-estimated my trajectory due to the artificial acceleration.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#458

Post by carapace »

sunstone wrote: post #174

While it sounds preposterous right now this problem will soon solve itself with already built "bike lanes". And bicycles are not the solution. The solution, as this article touches on, is light weight electric transport using the existing road structure. There's a strong indication of this future in the fact that last year the Dutch bought more electric bikes than normal bikes in total. And they paid twice as much fo…

I've been saying for a few years now that self-driving cars are a fetish. (And can we please please call them "auto-autos"?) The thing to make is a self-driving golf cart. You could build that today, make it small, light, soft so it can't kill or maim people, sell a million of them.

(Old people! They still need to get around, they tend to be not so great drivers, and they don't mind the mellow, easy route.)

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#459

Post by aidenn0 »

brnt wrote: post #440
aidenn0 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a very mild clime, but still don't bike when it's rainy. What do you suggest gear-wise for bicycling in say 5-10C but wet? I have a 30 minute bicycle commute that I'd like to do more often. A typical waist-length jacket leaves most of my body wet, but a longer jacket is awkward to bike in. If it's over 10C, I can just wear shorts that don't absorb water, but under 10, it gets quite uncomfortable.

Personally I use acceptance ;) Which I think is an important ingredient that most Dutch citizens learn as they start cycling to high school regardless of weather: it won't always be pleasant. In the rain I'll get wet, no biggy. At work I won't be the only one putting a coat and shoes on the heater to dry. Some discomfort is present in all modes of transport, this is the one I chose to put up with. I also use a rainco…

Right, it was 19 miles to bike from my house to my HS, which is a bit far, and long enough that a bus was faster (though at least most of it was separated from automobile traffic).

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#460

Post by Fricken »

fourneau wrote: post #279
Fricken wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to read isn't easy or comfortable, so we force everyone to do it, because most would default to illiteracy if we didn't. Not destroying the planet is even more important than literacy.

Sure, no disagreement there. I’m not arguing against bikes but we should also be heavily investing in other forms of mass transit. You bike in during the dead of winter, and that’s amazing. But how long is your bike ride in? How far out of the city do you live? Would you still do it if your commute was double? Additionally, in Ottawa, many people live far out of the city and commute in via the highway for 30-40 minut…

My commute for a long time was 16 km each way, now it's 1/3rd of that. I've been hearing about climate change since I was a kid, so I've had my whole life to set my life up accordingly. I didn't make decisions that made commuting by bike unfeasible.

I don't think I've met a bicycle commuting advocate who doesn't also advocate for improved mass transit and walkable development. We stopped building neighbourhoods that way and razed many of the ones we had in the second half of the 20th century, so there's a huge supply and demand imbalance for walkable neighbourhoods in North America.

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