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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#451

Post by SkyBelow »

weberc2 wrote: post #318
SkyBelow wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Math is probably one of the if not the least political thing out there, but there are still politics involved. For starters, all mathematicians need funding and choosing who to fund is partially political. Deciding awards is partially political. Even the importance of taking or rejecting some axioms and if certain fields still have value for further research is political. There are even different axioms one can use t…

> Math is probably one of the if not the least political thing out there If you can concede that some things are less political than others, then how difficult is it to assume that "No political conversations" is a shorthand for "conversations about things which are not highly political"?

Quite difficult, when the example was used in response to the statement "Everything is political." I would even say the contemplation of such a concession would be evidence of the original point as it suggests that we should just accept that everything is political and thus when someone says not everything is political they mean that some things are far less political than others.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#452

Post by stcredzero »

new2628 wrote: post #436
stcredzero wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a fine approach, but unfortunately politics creeps into more and more aspects of life. Do a historical survey of people who tried to suffuse politics completely through the lives of their followers. For completeness, look also at the actions of religions in the same way. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Politics, movements of any kind which demand the entirety of the lives of their…

I surely enjoy wild associations as much as the next guy, but I meant more pedestrian topics such as: - are you eating meat or are you vegetarian? - do you take a car to work or ride a bike or take public transportation? - do you drink tap water or bottled water? - do you send your kids to private or public school? Now try discussing any of these in depth "without politics".

I would generally find all of the above somewhat too pedestrian as topics, if they come up too often. Also, I've discussed all of the above at work with coworkers recently, and when things do veer into the political, they don't go too deep (though at my current job, we're free to be quite acerbic) and the conversation veers away to something else.

I guess we treat the avoiding taboo topics more like not driving on the lines, and less like driving over a minefield. We generally avoid for safety's sake, and don't expect things to blow up immediately if there is a bit of driving over the line.

(Hell, we even talk about guns and gun control!)

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#453

Post by einhverfr »

devy wrote: post #428

This article makes it seem like debating politics is a good practices in workplace. It is NOT! Talking politics in workplace is not professional - different political opinions can wreck marriages, it can certainly wreck your job too! Just think about what if your boss is having a completely different political opinions than what you belief. Also any major corporations leaning one side of the political party would imm…

In the EU, freedom from discrimination on the basis of political opinion is considered a fundamental right, and is mentioned as such in the European Charter of Fundamental Rights.

Private conversations about politics thus is entirely outside the scope of what the company is allowed to care about. Public comments, for example on global email lists, would be a different topic.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#454

Post by commandlinefan »

freeone3000 wrote: post #411
Aperocky wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing and everything. What's more important to life than family and friends? Do you talk about them at length at work? Just because something is of monumental importance to the society/world, doesn't mean you need to talk about it all the time, especially at work.

Can you imagine how soulless work would be if you couldn't talk about your family and friends? These are the things that make us people. We can't just put them in a box at 9am and take them back out at 5.

> soulless

You mean I could get my work done and not have to feign interest when people blather on about their family and friends? One soul, coming up.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#455

Post by fortran77 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #195
gwbas1c wrote: post #92

Ever since the infamous "diversity memo," (which I disagree with,) I've gotten the impression that political discussions at Google turned toxic. A well run company includes people with diverse political views points. A workplace that's hostile to anyone who leans right or leans left ultimately hurts diversity.

My impression has not been that the memo is when political discussions turned toxic, but merely the first time it very publicly breached the sacred wall of non-disclosure with the outside world. Prior to that, most everyone seemed content to be upset with each other internally.

And they never punished the woman who leaked that internal memo.

I thought that memo was foolish and short-sighted. I don't agree with it.

However, it would have been better solved by a manager first asking him "do you really think it's a good idea to post this at work?" and having him tone it down than trying to publicly shame him and get him fired.

Google picked the wrong side on that. They should have made an example of the leakers.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#456

Post by sergiotapia »

daenz wrote: post #160
sergiotapia wrote: post #28

Monkey has shit the bed already though hasn't it. I never had the need to discuss politics at work. Just don't do it, why open that can of worms. Absolutely no need to do so. One time a coworker asked me and I said "I don't discuss politics at work". Be professional, people.

>One time a coworker asked me and I said "I don't discuss politics at work". These days, even that is seen as taking a side. People get suspicious when you don't join in with the group political affirmations, and start suspecting you to be a secret "other." That's how toxic it's become.

I'm latino so I at least have some shielding against that bullshit.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#457

Post by dvtrn »

EpicEng wrote: post #351
dvtrn wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Google employees are supposed to just shut up or leave? An important question, I think. It would seem some think they should, and some probably think they should do both. Brings to mind the attitude of "shutup and play ball" when sports athletes try to use their platforms for some aspect of social change or another. An attitude I find personally disheartening, but I'll stop there because these discussions never en…

>Brings to mind the attitude of "shutup and play ball" when sports athletes try to use their platforms for some aspect of social change or another. But even then there's a difference; NFL players aren't protesting the actions of the NFL. If Google employees were using their position to push some agenda the company did not agree with and had nothing to do with then I'd agree. It's certainly within Google's rights to t…

NFL players aren't protesting the actions of the NFL.

Oh yes, they absolutely are.

Miami Dolphin's player Kenny Stills directly protested his team owner's involvement and affiliation with a charity donating funds to the Trump administration.

This seems to have had some result: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-j...

Oakland Raider's player Antonio Brown is directly protesting recent changes to the NFL's helmet guideline policies.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-brown-reacts-afte...

Seattle Seahawks player Earl Thomas, in addition to protesting criminal justice inequalities, directly protested his team and how the league was, at the time, addressing and handling player safety, right before he himself got injured and gave his coach the finger while being carted off the field. He has since been traded.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/01/earl-thomas-mi...

Players are absolutely protesting the actions of the NFL in some degree or another. To say otherwise is, I'm sorry, to be ignorant of the issues.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#458

Post by commandlinefan »

gwbas1c wrote: post #92

Ever since the infamous "diversity memo," (which I disagree with,) I've gotten the impression that political discussions at Google turned toxic. A well run company includes people with diverse political views points. A workplace that's hostile to anyone who leans right or leans left ultimately hurts diversity.

> diversity memo

Are you referring to James Damore's memo?

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#459

Post by crooked-v »

magashna wrote: post #113
19ylram49 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I find it quite bizarre when some folks suggest divorcing from politics as if the possibility exists. Everything is political. Even this very conversation is political.

It must be exhausting to have this mindset. Sometimes a story is just a story, a joke is just a joke, and there isn't a me vs you argument to be had.

Give me a joke and I'll point out the politics inherent in it.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#460

Post by stupidthrottle »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #449
josteink wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the idea of calling a trans woman a woman is a political move? You are arguing that we should accept a man who’s feeling “womany” as a real woman, and that he should legally be treated as a woman. Personally I think that’s absurd. I think we should let everyone be who they are, but I disagree about having legalities determined by what someone claims to feel. Feelings are feelings, and very much soft and fluid.…

I'm not saying anything except that what does one do when a workplace bans politics but being LGBTQ is a political act? How does one avoid politics when calling someone 'he' or 'she' (either way) is a political act?

> being LGBTQ is a political act

Clearly that’s not the case, unless you make it your mission to make it so.

> How does one avoid politics when calling someone 'he' or 'she' (either way) is a political act?

If you allow this to be a treated as a political act which can only 1. be applied by someone who wants to exercise power over others, and 2. Can be used by former group to claim discrimination universally...

> what does one do when a workplace bans politics

Clearly politics is not banned, only certain kinds of politics is. The other kind is being enforced hard.

Don’t accept the double-speak.

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