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Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

nature.com

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Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#451

Post by dragonwriter »

asdfman123 wrote: post #446
mark_l_watson wrote: post #236

At least in the USA, this could in principle be fixed by ending the corporate welfare state. Old news, but All major industries like the beef industry get huge tax breaks, free water and other giveaways at the general taxpayer’s expense. Fixing the corruption (both democratic and republican parties) in our our political would end up helping the environment a lot. That said, we have zero chance of fixing our corrupt p…

You want to find a rare issue with bipartisan support? Try raising the price of food and seeing how people like it.

> You want to find a rare issue with bipartisan support? Try raising the price of food and seeing how people like it.

Food stamps are designed to raise the market clearing price of food as a subsidy to agriculture (they’ve since become a means-tested welfare program as well, while retaining the original purpose); they have fairly strong political support, which definitely shows a partisan divide.

The Dairy Price Support Program and other agricultural price support programs likely continue to exist despite having the sole purpose of raising the price of food; were raising the price of food the kind of third-rail you are trying to imply, there would be a bipartisan consensus against such programs that would make it impossible to retain them.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#452

Post by frankbreetz »

cronix wrote: post #420
cribbles wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate welfare is one thing. I'd also like to direct readers to this thread from yesterday: https://twitter.com/unabanned/status/1159272783676891136 - which persuasively argues (with multiple sources) that the US meat industry depends upon massive labor exploitation of undocumented immigrants in order to 1) suppress wages and 2) maintain an otherwise intolerable working environment. This shows that the problem is…

What will happen to veggie prices when we go to a $15 min wage? Do other farms not benefit from illegal labor?

It takes considerably less labor to farm vegetables than to farm vegetables and feed those vegetables to animals and also take care of those animals. So vegetable prices may go up, but considerably less so when compared to meat.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#453

Post by dragonwriter »

cribbles wrote: post #368
mark_l_watson wrote: post #236

At least in the USA, this could in principle be fixed by ending the corporate welfare state. Old news, but All major industries like the beef industry get huge tax breaks, free water and other giveaways at the general taxpayer’s expense. Fixing the corruption (both democratic and republican parties) in our our political would end up helping the environment a lot. That said, we have zero chance of fixing our corrupt p…

Corporate welfare is one thing. I'd also like to direct readers to this thread from yesterday: https://twitter.com/unabanned/status/1159272783676891136 - which persuasively argues (with multiple sources) that the US meat industry depends upon massive labor exploitation of undocumented immigrants in order to 1) suppress wages and 2) maintain an otherwise intolerable working environment. This shows that the problem is…

> which persuasively argues (with multiple sources) that the US meat industry depends upon massive labor exploitation of undocumented immigrants in order to 1) suppress wages and 2) maintain an otherwise intolerable working environment.

That's well-known about the meat industry. The problem with suggesting it as a reason to avoid meat in favor of vegetable-based food is the same is well-known to be true of agriculture generally.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#454

Post by the_gastropod »

andy_ppp wrote: post #415
the_gastropod wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have mixed feelings about Beyond Meat: my wife and I love the hot Italian sausage and burgers, but it is really not that healthy. I totally get this, and have similar feelings. But I try to remind my self what Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger are competing with: meat. They have similar saturated fat profiles to their "real" alternatives. I look at these meat alternatives as mostly beneficial for: 1. Meat eaters…

Why do you guys think saturated fat is bad for you? Certainly when fried it's much much healthier as it doesn't decompose into cancerous aldehydes. The science on this is very tainted so I would be very careful about assumptions here. Are there other things apart from saturated fat you are worried about? [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3t902pqt3C7nGN99hV...

As with climate change, there are a handful of bad actors and contrarians claiming that the science is tainted. But for the better part of a century, we've known that saturated fats are linked to heart and cardiovascular disease. It's frustrating that this misinformation is so readily spread, as it literally causes people's early death—including one of the early vocal adherents to it, John Atkins, who suffered several heart attacks and congestive heart failure before having a stroke that ultimately lead to his death.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#455

Post by mklarmann »

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #432
robin_reala wrote: post #32

It’s also worth pointing out that even if you don’t want to reduce the amount of meat you eat, changing the type of meat can have big effects. For example (and ignoring transport to the consumer), lamb produces about 35 kg CO₂ per kg of meat, beef 25kg CO₂ / kg, pork and farmed salmon 8kg CO₂ / kg and chicken 4kg CO₂ / kg.

Thank you. Is there a reliable place I can find this information? I have anecdotally been much healthier after incorporating more protein, particularly whole meat (rather than isolated protein) into my diet - fewer illnesses, faster recovery time, better gut health, etc.

You can access health and CO₂ informations on almost all foods here: https://app.eaternity.ch/login

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#456

Post by andy_ppp »

airstrike wrote: post #421
andy_ppp wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you guys think saturated fat is bad for you? Certainly when fried it's much much healthier as it doesn't decompose into cancerous aldehydes. The science on this is very tainted so I would be very careful about assumptions here. Are there other things apart from saturated fat you are worried about? [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3t902pqt3C7nGN99hV...

Literally first hit on Google: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5475232/ "The science on this is very tainted" isn't a particularly strong argument.

Your article supports my argument but your comment sounds like you disagree :-) which is it?

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#457

Post by mklarmann »

onion2k wrote: post #227
blunte wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone stopped traveling for fun, that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even more. I'm not willing to agree that it would reduce emissions more than ending meat consumption. It would help, however. Like most problems, there is not just one solution. Multiple modest to moderate changes in behavior can make a big difference. - redesign cities to include more and better public transport (less car/truck traff…

> A carbon tax fixes this. Not really. You're conflating the tax with spending the tax revenue. You don't need to spend any of the revenue on carbon sequestering projects. Just implementing a carbon tax that pushed the price of things like air travel up to the reflect the real cost would do a huge amount to reduce the amount people pollute. If the price of a flight doubled then fewer people would fly.

To actually reach our climate targets, even better would be a mandatory carbon budget, and trading of contingents. This would mean the price perfectly adjusts to were it should be.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#458

Post by andy_ppp »

the_gastropod wrote: post #454
andy_ppp wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you guys think saturated fat is bad for you? Certainly when fried it's much much healthier as it doesn't decompose into cancerous aldehydes. The science on this is very tainted so I would be very careful about assumptions here. Are there other things apart from saturated fat you are worried about? [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3t902pqt3C7nGN99hV...

As with climate change, there are a handful of bad actors and contrarians claiming that the science is tainted. But for the better part of a century, we've known that saturated fats are linked to heart and cardiovascular disease. It's frustrating that this misinformation is so readily spread, as it literally causes people's early death—including one of the early vocal adherents to it, John Atkins, who suffered severa…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzV-J1h0do

I suppose you’ll disagree with his analysis because the FDA say eat loads of carbs.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#459

Post by marcus_holmes »

maxencecornet wrote: post #67
robin_reala wrote: post #32

It’s also worth pointing out that even if you don’t want to reduce the amount of meat you eat, changing the type of meat can have big effects. For example (and ignoring transport to the consumer), lamb produces about 35 kg CO₂ per kg of meat, beef 25kg CO₂ / kg, pork and farmed salmon 8kg CO₂ / kg and chicken 4kg CO₂ / kg.

This If you really want to have an impact while still eating meat, just stop eating beef/lamb altogether The amount of food and water needed to produce 1kg of beef meat is just insane Eat poultry or fish instead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio >Cattle is the worst at something like 15:1. Aquaculture, specifically tilapia and catfish, is good at under 2:1

not fish. Commercial fishing is killing the oceans (and something like 80% of the plastic in the ocean is fishing industry waste).

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#460

Post by Freak_NL »

ictebres wrote: post #88
baxtr wrote: post #8

I have become an 80% vegetarian - meaning I try to avoid meat completely, but I am not "strong" enough and end up eating a (usually small) piece of meat, once every week/second week. It took me at least one year to achieve this, because meat is so prevalent in our society. A friend of mine was in India recently and he said he did not miss meat at all since the non-meat dishes were so great. I think a lot of it is jus…

Yes, living in Berlin I feel spoiled. When I was in South Korea, most of the time there was nothing vegetarian on the menu, in Berlin you have multiple vegan options and even more vegetarian options. I believe restaurant options are very important since people learn from those and mimic them at home. We need restaurants to offer more vegetarian and vegan dishes for people to see that they can have a rich (IMHO richer…

> I don’t know how to nudge the restaurants though

Visit and ask for vegetarian or vegan dishes. Move on if there is nothing worthwhile; let the staff know if you've liked a particular dish or find the selection too limiting. Demand drives supply.

In the Netherlands the vegetarian option used to be a boring salad with goat cheese. Nowadays not having decent meat-free options means you can't compete with the rest. This is something only the cheaper restaurants aimed at lower socio-economic classes can afford to do (but only for now). The reason for this discrepancy is that this class of people (mostly blue collar workers and their families) tends to lag behind the rest of society a bit as habits shift towards more healthy alternatives (smoking is another example).

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