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The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

city-journal.org

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Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#451
post #378

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated. It's my children that I worry about. They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start…

25 is very young. You’re not going to find many urban, college-educated 25 year olds willing to start a family that early.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your daughter will be ok. She can go anywhere and immediately find social groups and have no issues finding dates — if she gets online she can literally have hundreds or thousands of men ready to take her out. It’s completely opposite for most men — isolated and hard to find social circles.

This is insane. I used to think this way in high school - "wow, girls have it so easy, every man wants sex and if girls want sex they just have to raise their hand, it's so hard for men!" Then I lived in the real world and realized that, well, people don't actually want to have sex with anything that moves, and it's a gift to be a man who doesn't get dozens of sexual advances per day, and doesn't have to worry about…

> people don't want to have sex with anything that moves

> gift to be a man and not get dozens of advances a day

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#453

There are a concerning amount of incels and sexists in this thread. Please get off the internet and your toxic "communities" and get some help if you really hold such frustration and anger. Don't let it pent up.

Seriously. The comments here (and on the article itself) are scary, scary stuff.

Not sure what you're referring to and genuinely interested. All I've seen here is fairly polite discussion into some contentious issues.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#454
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to say this, but the tone in your voice towards your son sounds more detached than it should in my opinion. I mean, why would you let him slip into that bleak future you're describing for him? Shouldn't you be the one to wake him up, especially if he lives under your roof. I get it if you don't believe in discipline, but I think that's what is required here (or at least fatherly guidance).

If they are mid-twenties they have probably heard it a million different times in a million different ways, what do you do?

[deleted]

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#455

I’ve been feeling a pretty intense sort of depression and loneliness for the last month or so. The feelings of “you’re a white male and you work in tech and you are wealthy you are a SATAN” is just becoming too much :(. I volunteer a tremendous amount in education, where I’m the only male I generally even see in my field, and I constantly have to listen to my coworkers gleefully talk about how excited they are at how…

>I constantly have to listen to my coworkers gleefully talk about how excited they are at how few young boys show up to our events. I hear them blatantly express disdain when a couple do.

This is not appropriate behavior. There’s no excuse for discriminating against children.

It’s okay to be bothered by this. It’s okay to call people out when they do this. In practice you need to be extremely polite and patient, and offer measured criticisms.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#456

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

Good news is there are still people who get married and have kids. Bad news is they're definitely the less introspective (for lack of a less offensive word) than the ones that don't get married.

My interpretation is that we finally have the freedom from cultural norms to really do whatever we please, but with great freedom comes great responsibility, not just to society but to our own long-term selves. Perhaps these people you talk about have chosen poorly, very poorly indeed, with this freedom. Nothing to do but advise the ones who might listen, and build a moat (physical or mental) that can protect you and your loved ones from them when shit hits the fan.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You live in Seattle, don't you? The reason I ask is because I feel more or less the same way. I wake up at 6 am so that I can volunteer as a teaching assistant for public school CS classes. I work with a dog rescue, spending weekends cleaning poop out of kennels and walking dogs. And yet, native Seattleites will still accuse me of ruining "their" city. I doubt that most of these people make a fraction of the amount o…

> And yet, native Seattleites will still accuse me of ruining "their" city. If you listen to them, their complaints are likely not that "there's too much dog poop" and "kids these days just don't know enough cs" but rather "money is making the city unlivable for those not connected to tech". > I doubt that most of these people make a fraction of the amount of effort that I do to contribute to the community. They just…

> If you listen to them, their complaints are likely not that "there's too much dog poop" and "kids these days just don't know enough cs" but rather "money is making the city unlivable for those not connected to tech".

These same people rail against the inequality and exclusivity of the tech industry, and the borders which are drawn around socioeconomic, racial, and gender lines. I am making a significant personal sacrifice to mitigate this issue for future generations by providing the exact CS mentorship and guidance that these people are (rightfully) complaining that they lack. I have directly seen the effects of my efforts on these kids, including a few who have gone on to gasp study CS! In a few short years, they may even be my co-workers, and have completely broken out of the cycle of poverty.

Knowing the positive impact I have had on other peoples lives, and my community at large is a beautiful thing, and I am certain that it outweighs however much my presence is "driving up housing prices" (I live on the east side anyway, so it's a moot point regardless).

Your reflexive dismissal of this not-insignificant contribution and refusal to acknowledge the point being made here is unfortunate. But way to try to reduce this to "there's too much dog poop". You've provided HN readers with a prime example of manipulative framing and intellectual dishonesty.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#458
post #410
post #378

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated. It's my children that I worry about. They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start…

Your son's situation sounds a lot like my own, but I am married and maybe am a bit more responsible than him. :) So, we're a couple that doesn't want to / plan to have children and we've discussed the "getting old" thing before. What I regret about our American society is that it's no longer common to live together as an extended family. Why couldn't he live with his sister (or near her), after you're gone? What abou…

I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up living with his sister someday. They're pretty close, really. We had a talk about wills with the kids last year, and one question was "What should we do about the house? Do you kids want to keep it, or sell it for the money?", and they were both adamant about keeping the house they grew up in.

In the meantime, part of my son's responsibility as we get older is taking care of his aging parents. Last summer, my wife had a serious knee injury that had her bedridden for a while and limited mobility for longer, and he had to step up then. We warned him that this was the first of many, and they'll get worse.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your daughter will be ok. She can go anywhere and immediately find social groups and have no issues finding dates — if she gets online she can literally have hundreds or thousands of men ready to take her out. It’s completely opposite for most men — isolated and hard to find social circles.

It’s easy for women to find dates. Much harder to find competent potential life partners who want to start a family.

Well yeah, but... it's hard for men to find dates to begin with, and that's just the starting line for finding a competent potential life partner who want to start a family. I'm a parent of both a boy and a girl like OP, as well as a former single man - I do believe women have some disadvantages in modern society, but dating/romance is not one of them.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#460
post #378

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated. It's my children that I worry about. They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start…

Your daughter will be ok. She can go anywhere and immediately find social groups and have no issues finding dates — if she gets online she can literally have hundreds or thousands of men ready to take her out. It’s completely opposite for most men — isolated and hard to find social circles.

>if she gets online she can literally have hundreds or thousands of men ready to take her out

Women have to actually filter out the serial killers you know. That's what they're doing on the dating thing.

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