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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#451

Post by ggm »

In a context of pushback over casual hire/gig-economy workers and their actual employment status this feels like both egregiously stupid and possibly illegal behaviour, which the company does because its a scofflaw. If its legal its wrong. if its illegal then its wrong both equitably and legally.

I can't see in either case how its sustainable business practice to offer gig work, but claim the tip is the pay.

I really wish there were penalties reserved for CEO and Board of these startups, which couldn't be passed on to shareholders or customers.

Flaying alive feels like it might be about all we've got left.

Happy to put on an old crone's clothes and sit below the scaffold knitting, while it happens. Maybe the sans-culottes had a point?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#452

Post by otakucode »

jopsen wrote: post #131
atom-morgan wrote: post #97

Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.

No, this is why you have regulation, and need unions. Consumers have enough parameters to optimize for: price of groceries, cost of delivery, fair trade, availability of products, delivery speed, convenience, availability of delivery slots, the list is long. Consumers are relatively good at optimizing for cost, not perfect -- but asking for more than that is unrealistic.

There are two separate and very different issues at hand. On the one hand is the issue you are tackling, the economic and large scale one. But there is another - the personal and small scale one.

Regardless of whether it is a good or bad practice to rely upon, in any capacity, the moral action of consumers generally, the fact still remains for the individual that if they have learned a provider they are using is acting immorally, they have a choice to contribute to and reward that or not. Even if it is terrible to rely upon this on a social scale, it does not absolve you of moral culpability for your own actions. Everything else aside, if you know such a thing, you still made the choice to contribute to a thing you claim to not agree with. It creates a bit of dissonance, where your professed moral beliefs are not reflected in your actions. And that's something that plays a role in your own evaluation of self even if others don't learn of your actions and judge you for them.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#453

Post by ravenstine »

Someone1234 wrote: post #126
babaganoosh89 wrote: post #37

DoorDash does the same thing of “stealing” tips. Either you should tip in cash or not at all.

I want the worker to receive 100% of the tip as much as anyone. But does anyone else find it obnoxious that all these digital services exist, often starting out with no tip straight pricing, then tipping re-appears, and then you suddenly need physical cash to morally use the service at all? Obviously workers should get fairly compensated. The problem is tipping culture itself, just set a price that customers are will…

> Plus the whole tipping thing is extremely inconsistent. Floral delivery? No tip. Pizza delivery? Tip.

Let's face it. People tip the Dominoes guy so they don't get spit in their pizza the next time.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#455

Post by wilkskyes »

roddds wrote: post #329
wilkskyes wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked a question, I don't think I need to provide some counter argument with it. If I must argue something, I'd say the housing crisis example wasn't so simple as it was presented. Some people knew exactly what they were doing, albeit it turned out badly for them, but they had so little to lose they took the risk anyway and just bankrupted out. But I'm not at all interested in talking about this, my original questi…

Your question was clearly a rhetorical question that contained the statement "the poor are never faulted for anything", which is basically the same as the next paragraph in your original comment. That's how everyone read it and that's what people are responding to. Your "I asked a question" is disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst, because it's basically saying "I was just asking questions! I didn't state anyth…

It wasn't rhetorical and I really would have been interested in the OP's answer. Had they answered truthfully, it would have helped expanded my understanding of how some people think.

Instead I've been assaulted and my eyes blackened all for what, because I asked a question that if answered may weaken the credibility of the op's original post?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#456

Post by throwaway415415 »

starpilot wrote: post #429
rafiki6 wrote: post #110

More evidence as to why tipping culture needs to die. Tipping fundamentally takes away the responsibility of paying someone for their work from the employer to the customer. In what other business context do I pay an employee of a company I deal with directly outside of the service industry where tipping is common? Wages are a cost of doing business. Pay the worker enough. If you want to still provide them an incenti…

Too bad every restaurant in the US that has tried to eliminate tipping has failed. Servers end up with less money, patrons end up paying more than with tips, and many patrons actually like tipping.

That's not true. Many restaurants in SF refuses tips. It works well.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#457

Post by throwaway415415 »

mruts wrote: post #380
rafiki6 wrote: post #110

More evidence as to why tipping culture needs to die. Tipping fundamentally takes away the responsibility of paying someone for their work from the employer to the customer. In what other business context do I pay an employee of a company I deal with directly outside of the service industry where tipping is common? Wages are a cost of doing business. Pay the worker enough. If you want to still provide them an incenti…

Well it should start with you right? Are you willing to never tip again in your entire life? If so, let us know how it goes (or maybe is going?) Or, alternatively, maybe you don't live in a country with a tipping culture. And if so, then tipping doesn't really affect you. People like to tip. I like to tip. Waiters and waitresses like to be tipped. My wife used to work as a waitress and would clear over $300 a night i…

It does. Most people I know in SF, including me, don't tip. Waiters here are way more used to it and don't necessarily expect it.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#458

Post by Dylan16807 »

MisterTea wrote: post #420
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

> At a minimum I'm going to be tipping in cash. Do the right thing. Take a stand for human decency and make a compromise by closing your instacart account now . Absorb the inconvenience and do your own shopping. And make sure to tell instacart to (insert profanity of choice) if you can while closing your account. That behaviour is low down and dirty. Shady craigs list used car dealer level stuff. I just walked three…

You didn't explain why that's "the right thing". Making sure the worker is paid well is the most important part.

It's also possible that instacart will lose money on the sales where they can't scam tips; that means you can use the service and pay the worker well and punish instacart and increase the incentive for them to change their policy.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#459

Post by throwaway415415 »

rafiki6 wrote: post #110

More evidence as to why tipping culture needs to die. Tipping fundamentally takes away the responsibility of paying someone for their work from the employer to the customer. In what other business context do I pay an employee of a company I deal with directly outside of the service industry where tipping is common? Wages are a cost of doing business. Pay the worker enough. If you want to still provide them an incenti…

There has been a no tipping movement in san francisco that has worked quite well. People don't tip anymore here and it is not socially accepted to do it.
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