Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

europa.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

451–460 of 975 posts

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#451

Post by philipodonnell »

swebs wrote: post #295

>In particular, Google has prevented manufacturers wishing to pre-install Google apps from selling even a single smart mobile device running on alternative versions of Android that were not approved by Google (so-called "Android forks"). Sounds a lot how Microsoft abused licensing agreements with OEMs to discourage them from selling PCs not bundled with Windows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Win…

Also Internet Explorer. This case seems almost a mirror of MS except in the phone space instead of PC. Only difference is that when the issue came up in Congress, MS was confrontational with regulators and Google cut some fat checks.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#452

Post by bovermyer »

sjcsjc wrote: post #367
endorphone wrote: post #286

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

Grammar point. You "flout" a law. You don't "flaunt" it (unless you think it's really good)

Normally I would say this is being pedantic, but I think the difference in meaning is important enough that this point shouldn't be ignored.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#453

Post by mattlondon »

nxoxn wrote: post #403

They will attack Google for bundling Google services with their OS and yet all I want is stock Android free from OEM apps (Samsung please).

Yeah I laughed at this idea too - the stock Android install that is free of any bloatware or dubious OEM-replacements for things like gmail or chrome or the play store or google photos is what a lot of consumers want, yet Google is getting fined by the EU for basically trying to enforce that.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#454

Post by ufo »

repolfx wrote: post #409
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW the definition of a patent is a "time-limited monopoly on working an invention", so all new products that are patented are monopolies by definition. As the sibling comment rightly says, monopolies are acceptable. But, as the EU clearly point out, a greater onus is put on monopolies to avoid abusing their monopoly power.

That would work if patents were enforceable but they really aren't. I can't see a company that (re)invented a new product category where no competitors emerged because of patents.

That is an extremely optimistic view of patents

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#455

Post by zaroth »

wongarsu wrote: post #429
endorphone wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not clearly breaching d? They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" (Google experience, whatever -- the thing that most consumers think of when they consider Android). They manifestly have a profound connection with each other. And let's be clear here lest there be any confusion -- zero customers want a vendor to do anything different, and the only reason some vendors w…

>They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" The thing they were fined for was >[Google] has required manufacturers to pre-install the Google Search app and browser app (Chrome), as a condition for licensing Google's app store (the Play Store); How is the Play Store related to the Google Seach app or to Chrome? One is an app store, one is a seach bar and one is a browser. They have…

> How is the Play Store related to the Google Seach app or to Chrome?

“Related to” does not mean that they are the literally same thing. They are clearly related as a suite of applications which form the core experience of what is called “Android”.

The law doesn’t say that if it is technically possible to unbundle a set of options from a product offering to be sold al la carte that companies must do that.

These are all essential components of one product — a mobile OS. Mixing and matching, for the vast majority of users, is neither practical or expected, and absolutely negatively impacts the brand.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#456

Post by Scea91 »

Avamander wrote: post #241
therealmarv wrote: post #96

History is repeating itself. Only difference is that Google search and Chrome browser is not as bad as MSN and IE in former times. Why Google did not looked on how MS handled that issue when you become the market leader?

I wonder if we're going to see a similar downfall of Chrome as we saw IE's?

For IE at that time there were obvious superior alternatives. There are no such alternatives to Chrome today, so I do not expect any downfall.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#457

Post by zaroth »

blub wrote: post #336
endorphone wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not clearly breaching d? They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" (Google experience, whatever -- the thing that most consumers think of when they consider Android). They manifestly have a profound connection with each other. And let's be clear here lest there be any confusion -- zero customers want a vendor to do anything different, and the only reason some vendors w…

"They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience". They manifestly have a profound connection with each other." Google has worked very hard to integrate their app suite at such a deep level with Android to the point that they can steer what can be done with the OS just by using that one lever. Anyone paying attention in the past decade will remember plenty of complaints about the GApps i…

Can you think of any technical advantages why Google would do this? Any functionality that becomes possible when the full suite of apps and APIs and services are all present together at once on the phone?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#458

Post by SparklingCotton »

rusk wrote: post #380
oliwarner wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing states against each other is par for the course in the US. Each state can offer wildly different tax structures and incentives, and they all do, because each wants to be the state government that oversaw "6000 new jobs". They've seen similar issues with the collection of sales tax, when one company can "operate" over many state lines. But saying "hey, that's obviously corruption" isn't enough. We need a good…

There is literally a "world" of difference between a collection of trade-aligned sovereign nations, and a single nation of autonomous economic regions. As you mention, it's an accepted part of daily business in the US but everybody pays taxes to the Fed at the end of the day. All governed by the same congress, president, and a coherent political dialogue throughout. That's not to say it'll always remain so. The parti…

But even within a region, having corporations do private deals with the government is corrpution.

You are not supposed to be able to get special privileges to your company to the detriment of your competitors.

There can be no free market when justice (and thus taxation) is not blind.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#459

Post by repolfx »

matt4077 wrote: post #238
repolfx wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government believes people have broken the law, in a democracy that means civil servants have to launch a criminal case and win a prosecution. The EU is not structured like that, and thus doesn't have to win any prosecution. Margrethe Vestager just issue a proclamation with a number she and the Commission picked out of the air, and the deed is done.

First: this is a civil law fine. In the E.U., companies are not subject to criminal law, only individuals are. It’s not much different in the US, where antitrust actions are also civil. Second: Google can appeal in court. It’s exactly the same as it is in the US.

But anti-trust law is prosecuted through the courts. Hence the Microsoft trial in the 1990s.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#460

Post by lucb1e »

makomk wrote: post #334
lucb1e wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it is very easy to switch out whatever you want for an alternative Do tell how one could switch out the map from Google Maps to anything else (Bing, OpenStreetMap, whatever). Or how I could get rid of Google+ without needing to wipe my device or use a zero-day. Or perhaps how I could get apk files from their repository without agreeing to the Google TOS and privacy policy, and without using some hacky system li…

You switch out the map app like this, same way you change the default app for anything else: https://360.here.com/2015/01/29/swap-google-maps-here-androi... (The instructions for switching to, say, Google's own Waze app are pretty much the same too.) This is as I understand it not possible on Apple's iOS; even if you install a third-party mapping application, everything else on the system which opens up a map will st…

That's a location picker. I'm talking about the map view on which applications show you things, such as live views of all trains in the country or something.

And this is just one example, there are a hundred more things that are in the proprietary google suite, without which you'll be able to install only a few of the apps available for the platform.

Post reply on HN