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Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

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Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#451

Post by e12e »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #410
cma wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of studies on what night shift does to people who have a normal circadian rythym. It isn't pretty.

Yes, but is that the jet lag effect from repeatedly switching times or just being awake at night?

Both. And the social strain of not being able to meet people that work on regular schedules.

I seem to recall that working just regular night shifts (eg 2300-0700) will cut an average 5 years off your life. Rotating shifts with half+ during night is even worse.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#452

Post by e12e »

dcosson wrote: post #226
cgriswald wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a mischaracterization to say this is all the result of bad habits. Asking teens and young adults to perform between 6 and 9 is like asking a fully mature adult to perform between 3 and 6. > I am a night owl myself, but our "natural" sleep cycle certainly more or less falls in line with school times. This is absolutely not true for adolescents continuing through young adulthood. Adolescents naturally have a dela…

> It is not (necessarily) poor sleep hygiene which causes teens to stay up later, but their own biological processes. I'm genuinely curious about this, do you have links to evidence of this? You're asserting a certain causal order, but everything I've seen such as the article this thread is purely observational so doesn't say anything about the causality of it.

I seem to recall a recent paper about hunter-gatherer watchkeeping; that certain age groups would be more alert at certain times. That one paper wasn't all that convincing, but it's an interesting idea.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#453

Post by e12e »

jsutton wrote: post #229
justherefortart wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to bed earlier. I get up early and have since High School. All I do is make sure I go to bed at a reasonable hour. Going to work, lunch, home early is friggin awesome. Avoiding rush hour, saving me roughly 1 hour a day in traffic, is fantastic. Plus it gives me time to do any personal things in the early afternoon without affecting my work schedule.

And if you don't get tired earlier? I find that even when I wake up early, I'm usually wired around 11pm-12am.

Physical exertion plays a role - but when I'm rested (~8 hours of sleep) I usually don't get really tired until I've been up 18-20 hours.

I've worked with friends that are completely different, and struggle to keep their eyes open after midnight. So there's definitely big differences.

I do generally manage to function well on "average" of ~8 hours of sleep every 24 hours: some night 8,9 or 10 some 4 or 5.

But yeah, if you're one of the people that can't understand how "changing the rhythm" can be a problem: try starting tour day at 0230 or 0300 am for a couple of weeks.

For the vast majority, that is though (hence attack right before dawn...).

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#454

Post by herbst »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #432
herbst wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever try? I can't tell you why but me and many other people seem to have a biological clock that is out of sync with our societies expections. For whatever reason I simply am more energetic and happy if I sleep until noon. Even if that means sleeping 12 hours, instead of 8 or so.

I did try living by my own biological clock and it was a complete disaster. Ruined my life for several years. My natural clock is non-24, but not by much, no more than 25 hours. So if left to my own devices I naturally drift "West" every single day. The only way I can cope is to take strict control of my wake up times and force myself into a 24 hour cycle. The phase is irrelevant to me. So if I'm going to take contro…

That sucks but could also be true for me. My best performance is when I sleep when I feel to and wake up when I want to. Which works pretty well once you break all the social norms.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#456

Post by digitaltrees »

dna_nerd wrote: post #373
digitaltrees wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if we recognize biological differences and structure society to align with that diversity we will get better performance out of everyone. I think it’s kind of insane that we all cram onto roads at the exact time so we can get to the office at the exact time. Why not have staggered schedules; especially if that means better performance from more people.

I totally agree with what you said. We need more personalized education systems. But this article is a red herring. If you actually read the data and figures from the article, the conclusions have been twisted to create clickbait. In particular, the article talks about persistent INSTABILITY of sleeping schedules. "We quantified SJL as the difference between the average phase of activity on class days and non-class d…

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I think people experience sleep pattern oscillation when they are trying to live on the wrong schedule. Night owls end up with a non-24hr sleep pattern when they try to live off cycle for too long. I experienced that myself when I was a lawyer in New York.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#457

Post by Balgair »

troupe wrote: post #385
Afton wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Many schools (my kid's school) also provide 'weekend packs'. It's hard to know how much of that gets to the kids, but poverty is a hell of a problem.

So are these children who qualify for free lunch, but come from families that can't qualify for SNAP benefits?

Their parents are negligent. It's not just a money problem.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#458

Post by aj7 »

merinowool wrote: post #355
aj7 wrote: post #328

Perhaps in classes where the grade is determined by parroting back what the professor says in class. It’s when (and how much) you study, not when class is that counts. Class just tells you what’s important to study.

If your day is ruined because you had to wake up at incompatible hour, you won't be able to learn much during that day, regardless if it is in class or in the evening at home as you'll be feeling fatigued.

Good point.
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