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A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

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Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it an ethical issue for strangers to look at your face when you are out in public?

More like strangers taking pictures of you without your consent (and often knowledge) with the intent to increase their profits and not sharing any of that with you.

Ethically, neither your consent or knowledge is required for someone to see you in public and remember that image. Why they do it isn't really relevant. If they use that image to do something unethical, like commit fraud, it is the fraud that is unethical, not the imaging.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#452
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if the salesman has an eidetic memory it becomes unethical? How about just an above-average one?

Eidetic memory and follows you everywhere and can transfer all those memories perfectly to any number of other people? Yeah. It's like super-stalking and it's obviously horrible.

Humans will get there too.

Stalking per se is mostly only illegal because it becomes harassment and bothers the victim. This kind of monitoring is entirely unobtrusive. As the response to the original tweet illustrates, most people aren't even aware that it is happening.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to give fake numbers in these situations. The way I see it, intentionally supplying bogus data is one of the only ways we have left to fight the machines and their algorithms!

Some countries have law making it illegal to give bogus information about you, with hefty fines and jail time.

There's a bit of plausible deniability if you give slightly bogus info, like transposing numbers. You could assert that there was a typo on the company's part.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#454
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are emotions that are impossible to detect using external information. We can hide our emotions very well. This is an assumption which I'm not convinced holds true. Just because we can hide our assumptions well enough to fool other people doesn't necessarily imply that's it's impossible to detect using external information.

I've seen some pretty convincing expressions of emotions from actors who were obviously not at the time, in love, in pain, in anger etc. I'm pretty certain that any system that takes your facial appearance and no other information (e.g. you are an actor, you are currently on a movie set), it would have no way to distinguish genuine from false emotion.

But humans are notoriously bad at picking up on details, and things like music and scenery can have a big impact on our perceptions. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just saying that in the absence of any evidence to the contrary I don't think we can just assume that you're right.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if the salesman has an eidetic memory it becomes unethical? How about just an above-average one?

Your reply is disingenuous. The problem is not that abuse is not possible in a human-driven system. Of course some gifted salespeople have incredible memories, hypnotic powers of persuasion, and so on. However, you must consider the following: 1) These people are rare in the general population, and demand for their time is likely to be incredibly high. Therefore, they cannot be deployed everywhere, unlike machines. 2…

>1) These people are rare in the general population, and demand for their time is likely to be incredibly high. Therefore, they cannot be deployed everywhere, unlike machines.

A temporary problem solved by natural selection, technological augmentation, and increasing incentives. Perfect performers in any profession are hard to come by. Ambitious people still strive to get there.

>2) When confronted with a human being in a sales scenario, people have a chance to be on guard against potential manipulative behavior. When the sales scenario becomes ubiquitous and invisible, it is much harder for people to avoid being taken advantage of.

Because people don't understand technology or sales. In your reality, people should be on guard all the time because sales and marketing were already continuous, even before hidden cameras. In actual reality, most people don't care that much about being sold to as long as the sale itself it not abusive.

> 3) Ethics are not so absolute. Something that is only mildly bad at an individual level can have terrible results when thousands are doing it. (Littering, for instance, or illegal hunting/fishing.) This is known as a social trap, and it leads to negative outcomes for everyone involved.

Sure, but that omits the necessary step of justifying this behavior as being either mildly bad on an individual level or terrible on a mass scale, much less both. It is neither.

Also, I would add item 0: advances in technology mean that surveillance devices will only become smaller, cheaper, and more connected over time. The future you fear so much is, in fact, inevitable.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought of the film as well. I think we should remember that for all the cool cars in the setting, it was meant to be dystopian.

Dystopian? I think it was meant to desensitize people to the point of acceptance.

Besides the movie's premise of psychic surveillance using disabled people and indefinite detention of pre-perpetrators, there was plenty of dystopian elements in that movie, even if the future wasn't specifically a dystopia. The spider bots, the vomit sticks, and the ads:

Spielberg: "The Internet is watching us now. If they want to. they can see what sites you visit. In the future, television will be watching us, and customizing itself to what it knows about us. The thrilling thing is, that will make us feel we're part of the medium. The scary thing us, we'll lose our right to privacy. An ad will appear in the air around us, talking directly to us."

http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/spielberg-and-cruise-an...

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often, you're more-or-less getting the content surrounding the ads from the ads, albeit indirectly. My local gas station upgraded its pumps recently to allow it to play video ads on the screen used to do the credit card transaction. I don't doubt it's partially the reason that gas station is still operational when similar non-franchises vendors in town have gone under.

Often times i don't give a damn about the content it sponsors. I'd much rather be able to do my business without being assaulted by ads, which often have little to do with reality, and often act as an alienating and dehumanizing force. It's very difficult to see the good. I would rather have no content than ad-supported content. of course, nobody will ever offer that! You can't sell ads if people can opt out, and too…

If you're expecting people to fold their livelihoods instead of sell ads, you may not understand how attached people are to their livelihoods. ;)

Meanwhile, there are some inroads into financial support alternatives to ads everywhere. Google has a "contributor" product (https://contributor.google.com/v/marketing) where you can basically bid against the ads they'd vend to you; instead of an ad running, you pay a microtransaction to buy the privilege of no ad.

It's an interesting idea, but it only works with Google's ad network.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#458
We might want to solve for the psychopaths in control on OUR planet (stolen from Us by Them through "trusts" and deceit). Money is the key - accounting for Human energy added into the system that accounts for Human energy added, and moves the bulk of OUR planet to very Few (psychopaths).

I AM anti-New World Order - A Better Way http://tapyoureit.boards.net/thread/99/anti-new-world-order

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reply is disingenuous. The problem is not that abuse is not possible in a human-driven system. Of course some gifted salespeople have incredible memories, hypnotic powers of persuasion, and so on. However, you must consider the following: 1) These people are rare in the general population, and demand for their time is likely to be incredibly high. Therefore, they cannot be deployed everywhere, unlike machines. 2…

>1) These people are rare in the general population, and demand for their time is likely to be incredibly high. Therefore, they cannot be deployed everywhere, unlike machines. A temporary problem solved by natural selection, technological augmentation, and increasing incentives. Perfect performers in any profession are hard to come by. Ambitious people still strive to get there. >2) When confronted with a human being…

You are applying binary "all or nothing" logic to the real world, which contains many more shades of grey.

It is true that technology (both social and digital) continues to progress, and that the genie can't be put back in the bottle once it escapes. However, you don't have to put it back in the bottle. Speed limits don't stop speeding, and laws against murder don't stop homicide. The legal and regulatory system exists not to fully prevent understand behavior, but rather to reduce it to a manageable level.

In short: I agree with one part of your premise. Technology will continue to evolve and will continue to challenge human society in this area. Unlike you, however, I don't believe that we have to roll over and accept the implications and consequences of unregulated privacy invasions, neuromarketing and whatnot.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#460
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, aren't ecommerce sites collecting this information and more from your browsing? I don't think it's possible to say one is much better than the other, just that we expect tracking online, not in the real world.

There is the point that in the "real world", social norms haven't yet adapted to the requirements of privacy (although you could also view it as societal norms allowing too much tracking). For example, if I wanted to use a mask to conceal my face from trackers, I would be ostracized. There are analogues in the virtual world of course, but it's usually harder in the physical world.

This also works http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Invisible-Face-Mask-/
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