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United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

latimes.com

451–460 of 464 posts

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I respectfully disagree with your assessment. First, I don't understand the two airport thing. Second, the Israelis do a security check on people before they board the (El-Al) planes -- like a day in advance or more. Also, we have plenty of veterans who fought in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. who have real combat experience that we could pay more money for at TSA and train and staff appropriately. We could have air m…

What percentage of international passenger flights to or from Israel do not go through Ben Gurion? Part of the Israeli security strategy is to route most potential threats through the same focused security apparatus. On a land border, that means building a wall (or "security fence") and moving the travelers through fewer gates. On a sea border, that means watching the whole thing closely and only allowing traffic thr…

Thank you for your detailed and reasoned response. But again, I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

First, you are speaking in terms of numerators but not denominators. Sure, we have 78 million people going through O'Hare of Chicago vs. 18 million for Ben Gurion. But the US has far more people and far more wealth than Israel as well as very large number of seasoned combat veterans.

Many Israelis carry firearms including those that live outside the green line. Those armed Israelis have stopped terrorists. In the case of a Yeshiva in Jerusalem a few years ago a terrorist killed 8 students but was stopped by another student who had a firearm (of course, former military). I know of another person who shot a terrorist who was shooting a machine gun at a bus. He was a hero but Israel doesn't publicize it because it makes him a target.

It may not be as perfect to have US International airports have the same level of security as Israel, but it could be much better than it is today. I'm not certain why Israel has the 3 hour rule.

As it is, for flights, airlines ask that you come to the airport two hours in advance, and in particular that is true for international flights.

Airports should receive more funding for security to 1) speed up the process and 2) use formal military combat vets properly trained. I suspect a small increase in the flight ticket tax to use for airport security would make the difference.

> "the airlines would simply go bankrupt [more often than they already do]."

They often go bankrupt partially because air travel for most is a commodity and it is hard to make profits with a commodity with many substitutions. Of course, consolidation such as United buying out Continental a few years ago makes airlines a bit less of a commodity because of fewer alternatives for flight.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of international passenger flights to or from Israel do not go through Ben Gurion? Part of the Israeli security strategy is to route most potential threats through the same focused security apparatus. On a land border, that means building a wall (or "security fence") and moving the travelers through fewer gates. On a sea border, that means watching the whole thing closely and only allowing traffic thr…

Thank you for your detailed and reasoned response. But again, I respectfully disagree with your assessment. First, you are speaking in terms of numerators but not denominators. Sure, we have 78 million people going through O'Hare of Chicago vs. 18 million for Ben Gurion. But the US has far more people and far more wealth than Israel as well as very large number of seasoned combat veterans. Many Israelis carry firearm…

> But the US has far more people and far more wealth than Israel

Just chiming in to add some context to this. In terms of area, population, and GDP, Israel is pretty close to New Jersey.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#453
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I'm not sure if your home airport is not very good, you don't travel that often, or if you just have a higher base level of anxiety or what- but any drive over 4 hours and I'm on the lookout to see if I can fly there. I frequently go from Portland to San Jose and back in the same day- I get meetings done and am home in time to put my kids to bed. I also just generally fly pretty frequently. I've got an Arab name…

Maybe they are just not white and have to endure a lot of "random" searches every flight.

My point is that I'm the exact demographic of people who should be getting hit by "random" searches and I've got the volume of travel where it should be happening to me somewhat frequently if it is a widespread issue that occurs with any regularity. I'm 24-34, 1/2 Arab, have a beard, book a lot of flights on short notice, sometimes just one way, and NEVER check a bag.

I don't get ever get bumped from flights and I get pulled out for "random" searches on average of 1 times per year for the past 5 years.

Again, all anecdotal, but I'm the definition of the guy who should hate the airport. I only just dislike it.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#454
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I'm not sure if your home airport is not very good, you don't travel that often, or if you just have a higher base level of anxiety or what- but any drive over 4 hours and I'm on the lookout to see if I can fly there. I frequently go from Portland to San Jose and back in the same day- I get meetings done and am home in time to put my kids to bed. I also just generally fly pretty frequently. I've got an Arab name…

Maybe they are just not white and have to endure a lot of "random" searches every flight.

My point is that I'm the exact demographic of people who should be getting hit by "random" searches and I've got the volume of travel where it should be happening to me somewhat frequently if it is a widespread issue that occurs with any regularity. I'm 24-34, 1/2 Arab, have a beard, book a lot of flights on short notice, sometimes just one way, and NEVER check a bag.

I don't ever get bumped from flights and I get pulled out for "random" searches on average of 1 times per year for the past 5 years.

Again, all anecdotal, but I'm the definition of the guy who should hate the airport. I only just dislike it.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#455
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US border guards don't even know what a prime minister is. There's no way they know about diplomatic passports. They have no idea about the laws they are supposed to enforce. They think they're supposed to enforce laws that don't exist. They are stupid idiots who exert their power randomly and wrongly. That's been my experience. Expecting anything else is unrealistic. What else do you expect from someone who probably…

Are you confusing Customs with the TSA? In general, customs agents are much better trained and there is a lot of former military. TSA on the other hand is as you a low requirement job as you described.

No. I'm talking about the border guards who check passports when flying back into the country. The one I talked to did not understand the concept of dual citizenship and insisted that I get rid of my non-US passport as soon as I entered because it is illegal. This is after failing to find my stamp in my US passport that had all of three stamps in it and trying to claim that I didn't have one! Talk about stupid! This borders on retardation! I assume this is the norm and the other concepts I mentioned are also beyond their meager understanding simply because this guy was so stupid that if he made it through the hiring process, plenty of other idiots have too. Hell, compared to this, the TSA employees are courteous and generally at least do their job properly.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US airlines have been through hell over the last 16 years. Bankruptcies, union battles, fierce competition, and not to mention, the real threat that someone could blow up or intentionally crash the plane they're flying, all contributed to a mentality that the employees have to stick together to survive. So you say US market is more competitive than European and have more strikes than European airlines and less risk…

I said nothing about European airlines. But I've wondered how much worse it would have been here if Ryan Air or Easy Jet had moved in.

is there any reason to believe it could be worse than status quo?

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#457
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_System_for_Travel_A...

He was travelling on a diplomatic passport, that doesn't apply to him.

Apparently he wasn't at the time. News reports I read at the time said he applied for ESTA but was found to be in violation of ESTA terms at the boarder.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#458
post #355
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the computer picks 8 people, and you call out the first four on the list. One of them refuses, just like what happened here. Now what? Your solution just has the airline crew going, "Fair enough, sir, you can stay" and then calling the next name. At that point, the next person knows that refusing is allowed, so he does too. Pretty quickly, you're absolutely going to be on a flight where five of the eight refuse, a…

> So the computer picks 8 people, and you call out the first four on the list. One of them refuses, just like what happened here. Now what? You inform the refusenik that he is trespassing; if he continues to refuse to leave, you inform him that police will be waiting for him at his destination, then call out the fifth name on the list. When you arrive at the destination, he goes to jail, while the four bumped passeng…

No, you listen to the reason he refuses to deboard. If it seems like a good reason to the flight crew. e.g. he is a doctor, etc. then you let him stay.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#459
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was travelling on a diplomatic passport, that doesn't apply to him.

Apparently he wasn't at the time. News reports I read at the time said he applied for ESTA but was found to be in violation of ESTA terms at the boarder.

He was travelling on a diplomatic passport: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/former-norwa...

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm very sorry your employees missed out on visiting NYC. As a NYC resident and as someone who has been to Paris many times, Paris is very nice. But people that come to NYC have a much greater experience. In the past month I met both an Italian who came here for the first time and an Israeli and both of them were so happy to be here. I think your employer should schedule a trip to NYC for these 70 employees --…

A recent story in Europe was that travellers entering the US could be forced to reveal social network passwords. No idea if that is true or not but it was a headline.

True, and social media seems too quick to blame Trump for it. But a Democrat senator has been pushing for it for a while now.

https://www.shaheen.senate.gov/news/press/shaheen-leads-lett...

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