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Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

leginfo.legislature.ca.gov

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Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#451

Post by dang »

mcbruiser wrote: post #352
Frondo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, well, as a cyclist who doesn't own a car, and as a vegetarian who doesn't eat meat, and as a childless infertile dude, I'm sure tired of subsidizing you cow-eating motorist parents. Oh, wait, that's what society is--we all pay for communal stuff because we're all ultimately in this together.

sounds like communism to me. I prefer survival of the fittest, and you don't sound very fit to me, which makes it understandable why you would be in favor of everyone else supporting the load.

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#452

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #451
mcbruiser wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like communism to me. I prefer survival of the fittest, and you don't sound very fit to me, which makes it understandable why you would be in favor of everyone else supporting the load.

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[deleted]

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#453

Post by mcbruiser »

bsder wrote: post #391
mcbruiser wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure as shit happy to pay more in taxes for a universal single single-payer. I Great, you can opt in to that, but don't force everyone else who doesn't agree with you to subsidize everyone else's poor decisions

Breaking an ankle is not a "decision". Tuberculosis is not a "decision". Cancer is not a "decision". Alzheimer's is not a "decision". "Getting old" is not a "decision".

agreed, but not seeking employment that provides insurance is

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#454

Post by jeffbax »

bsder wrote: post #382
mcbruiser wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most likely what will happen is people will just leave CA, leaving a shortage and it will fail

> most likely what will happen is people will just leave CA Could you please inform our population here about that? Republicans keep promising that people will flee the Blue states due to various policies; somehow it never seems to happen. Could you let us know what we're doing wrong? We'd really like to send some of these folks to Red states to help balance out the voting. Thanks bunches.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article136478098...

"Every year from 2000 through 2015, more people left California than moved in from other states. This migration was not spread evenly across all income groups, a Sacramento Bee review of U.S. Census Bureau data found. The people leaving tend to be relatively poor, and many lack college degrees. Move higher up the income spectrum, and slightly more people are coming than going.

About 2.5 million people living close to the official poverty line left California for other states from 2005 through 2015, while 1.7 million people at that income level moved in from other states – for a net loss of 800,000. During the same period, the state experienced a net gain of about 20,000 residents earning at least five times the poverty rate – or $100,000 for a family of three."

Life in California is becoming a luxury good, largely due to its own policies, and that is not a state in the right direction.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#455

Post by erichocean »

df3 wrote: post #5

A well-executed single-payer system would make California even more attractive for entrepreneurship and increase labor mobility for everyone. Life would be much easier if we could start companies or switch jobs without worrying about healthcare.

I'd be okay with single-payer in CA if we implemented the system in Denmark. Great mix of "everyone is covered" with choice/doctor control. I wish more people wanted it. :(

If we're just going to keep doing the ACA, no thanks. What a piece of shit that legislation turned out to be.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#456

Post by erichocean »

neltnerb wrote: post #131
df3 wrote: post #5

A well-executed single-payer system would make California even more attractive for entrepreneurship and increase labor mobility for everyone. Life would be much easier if we could start companies or switch jobs without worrying about healthcare.

Completely agree. The trick is making sure it's well-executed so that other states can use it as a template. Once one state proves that single-payer can be done well, I suspect it will cascade inevitably. With 100% seriousness, if the ACA is repealed I will likely be choosing between Massachusetts (where Romneycare would hopefully take priority again) or another country. It's too risky to do otherwise. My extended an…

> It's too risky to do otherwise.

Uh, you could just buy insurance yourself. It's not like no-ones covered unless the State writes the check. smh

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#457

Post by SilasX »

DrScump wrote: post #344
TheOsiris wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone disagrees that single payer requires higher taxes than we currently pay. so given that, you're trying to tell me that a state with the highest taxes (much much higher than #2) in the nation, with the lowest housing affordability will attract more entrepreneurs than before? why? because the young and invincible will be choose cheaper healthcare over being able to live comfortably? I highly doubt i…

I don't think anyone disagrees that single payer requires higher taxes than we currently pay I disagree, in the sense that I don't take that as a given. Remember, all of the current inefficiencies in and profits for the carriers go away and are instead fed directly into the system of care. The first problem is, how could the government simply take over? Eminent Domain? Constitutional amendment?

True, but the parent was speaking specifically to taxes alone, while your reply is referring to a different claim, about taxes plus healthcare costs.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#458

Post by amluto »

FT_intern wrote: post #126
amluto wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By giving them healthcare? There aren't actually a large number of illegal immigrants sitting around contributing nothing to the CA economy.

I did a quick search and an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants pay an estimated $11.6 billion in taxes, so $1,000 per person. It's a huge net loss. Not to mention the fallout from stolen SSNs and creating demand for stolen SSNs

You're making an incorrect assumption that taxes paid are proportional to GDP contribution. Do you really think that, for example, low-paid migrant farm workers contribute correspondingly little to economic output? They contribute hugely to farm output!

As an extreme example, unpaid workes (slaves in places and times with slavery, interns, etc) still contribute to their employers' output. The right thing to do isn't to reduce their rights and benefits to be commensurate with their nonexistent salaries; instead, their rights and benefits (and hence taxes) should be increased to be (at least) commensurate with their value to the economy.

The stolen SSN issue is a bizarre strawman. There's a trivial solution: give them real SSNs.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#459

Post by Uhhrrr »

magicalist wrote: post #410
Uhhrrr wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is already running a budget deficit, in part because of the health subsidies it already provides. Also, it allows voluntary contributions, so you can already pay more taxes: https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/vcfsr/vcf_faqs.shtml Thus far I have been able to resist the tempation to do so.

> Also, it allows voluntary contributions, so you can already pay more taxes That's for charitable contributions...

If you don't specify a charity it goes into the general fund. It's mentioned somewhere in that page.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#460

Post by ThomPete »

jartelt wrote: post #449
ThomPete wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a single payer system thats not going to work. Keep in mind that you don't make money anymore you have a taxpayer paid budget. Thats not going to leave room for that. That they are required to treat is even worse for a budget it wouldnt hold long.

I do not understand your argument. You just price a new tax high enough such that the system is paid for, no? I think everyone agrees that you need a new tax to pay for the system, and you are not going to take the current tax revenue and pay for single payer plus everything else the government pays for. Instead of paying for insurance premiums or getting a lower salary because health insurance is part of your compen…

in the real world you dont just do that. The problem is that you can never pay too much for healthcare so how much tax you are going to pay is important.

The US is a big and complex country, its not like other countries and so you run the risk of having to tax so high to make it sustainable that its dead on arival.

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