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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#451

Post by dpark »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #262
cylinder wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing, even with long-time friends, if I am trying to counter their hysteria (they're reading and sharing "fake news," too, and I just want to point out the inaccuracy of their statements or test them with logic, I'm called an "alt-right fascist." Honestly, the level of discourse in this country is an absolute joke. It doesn't matter what side you are on.

What gets my goat is the kind of shouting down I get whenever I take any contrarian stance on non-GMO foods, or God forbid, vaccination. I know that vaccines are critical and that there is nothing wrong with them. But to not even admit the possibility that there might be a link between vaccines and some health problems is, to me, very anti-science. My understanding for science has always been to question all assumpti…

> I know that vaccines are critical and that there is nothing wrong with them. But to not even admit the possibility that there might be a link between vaccines and some health problems is, to me, very anti-science.

The problem is that you're agreeing that there is no link but then trying to argue that maybe there really is a link and everyone should think really hard about it. This is not a logical or factual argument but you expect that people should act as if it is. If you have facts or even logical arguments to put forth, then do so. But don't claim that everyone is being anti-science when they dismiss your baseless speculation as baseless speculation.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#452

Post by justinsaccount »

justinsaccount wrote: post #404
mrkurt wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the purpose of devaluing someone's opinion / level of comfort like that? This is exactly how you get people to disengage and destroy any chance you have of persuading them of ... whatever you want to persuade them of.

"I don't understand what you are complaining about, I have no problem finding a seat on the bus" - Some white guy in 1955.

But the bus is great for me. I'm perfectly comfortable riding right up at the front. How dare you devalue my opinion and level of comfort like this!

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#453

Post by sdegutis »

splawn wrote: post #98
sdegutis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, there's some dangerous censorship happening in the public school system and in the business world and in government, and I think a lot of Trump supporters recognize this and are worried about it.

censorship regarding what?

You can't say Merry Christmas. You can't say you understand homosexuality to be a disorder. You can't call a man "he" if he identifies as a "she". Do any of these in school, business, or government and you'll be punished.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#454

Post by mjevans »

dguaraglia wrote: post #385
mjevans wrote: post #88

I want to be constructive about this topic. The /next/ president of the United States should be/campaign on: * A new new deal; end 'handouts', make it the government's job to offer productive job placement. ** This includes retraining for such ** or if that really can't work out (disability/age/etc) *** then 'retire' someone (frame the handout with a different name). * Simplify taxes (single plugin equation for base…

> * A new new deal; end 'handouts', make it the government's job to offer productive job placement. Would you consider medicine and living arrangements for people who can't work for psychological or physical reasons "a handout"?

Also, from a different perspective (and thus another post).

This is a good campaign training question.

"Those who are unfit for any work should be retired from the work force. I think we can all agree that retirees often need assistance with living safely and still deserve a rich environment to have a fulfilling life experience."

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#455

Post by hkmurakami »

RangerScience wrote: post #365
Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

I'm more-or-less on the other side of the fence, complete with getting thrown link after link of... well, not sure I want to call them "facts". I find two tricks to be useful: Avoid statements, ask questions. Asking for summaries is good. Play a little game: How little time can you spend getting the other person to spend the most time on their response? You win if you spend a minute and they spend an hour. Note: Does…

Questions are used when you want to learn about the other person.

Statements are used when you want to make a point.

Which one a person employes will tell you a lot about their intent.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#456

Post by davidw »

naravara wrote: post #296
Yhippa wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the current system is really broken: see what it's like to try and immigrate, legally, from Mexico if you just want to do manual labor. See, this is what would be most interesting for me to discuss with my friends. There is obviously a demand for those services that Americans possibly don't want to do (I'm not completely clear on if they want to or not). What can we do to make this a more sane process for e…

>Republicans were almost on board but it never got over the hump for whatever reason. The "whatever reason" you're grasping at is the latent racism of the Republican base. As much as you want to believe the focus is on "illegal" immigration the Republican base understands this as a coded dog whistle for not liking Brown people. It's not about a marketplace of ideas, it's about signaling which tribe you align with. Th…

That's part of it, but there are also "the law is the law" kinds of people, who perhaps don't realize how much more difficult it is for someone to move to the US now than it was for their ancestors. I have no idea as to the percentages of both.

There are also a lot of people who are victims of zero sum thinking and the lump of labor fallacy.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#457

Post by drewrv »

naravara wrote: post #339
chubot wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this was in the feedback: “I’d love to see one-tenth of the outrage about the state of our lives out here that you have for Muslims from another country. You have no idea what our lives are like.”

>Yes, this was in the feedback: >“I’d love to see one-tenth of the outrage about the state of our lives out here that you have for Muslims from another country. You have no idea what our lives are like.” The Democrats had a debate in Flint about the water crisis where they discussed what to do about it and how the country's infrastructure got there. Meanwhile Donald's fans were screaming "TEN FEET HIGHER!" If GOPers…

There's a lot of talk about how important it is to listen to Trump supporters, and all it does when I listen to them is terrify me.

When I listen to them, I hear people who blame others for their situation, mostly liberals and foreigners. I also hear people who refuse to believe most sources of news and almost all academics.

The combination of these things is scary. The fact that they have disproportionate political power and stockpile weaponry is even scarier.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#458

Post by Pent »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #73
panic wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be hard to separate criticism from an attack. If you say something racist, and I tell you so, is that an attack?

Unfortunately, both yes and no. The word has become near profanity now and is often used as an insult rather than a statement. The reaction of, "How is it racist?" can be taken as a defense even if it is an honest question. Luckily, words are amazing and there are ways to diffuse this stuff. "I think some folks might find that insensitive, you know" might be better wording than "That was rather racist" - even though…

Is sensitivity a universal value and priority for everyone? Even in the rust belt? Is dismissing sensitivity as a value, allowed?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#459

Post by mjmsmith »

austenallred wrote: post #226
meat_fist wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. Serious question: are you white?

Yes

Are you gay? Are you a woman? Are you Muslim?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#460

Post by cr0sh »

SnowFace wrote: post #328
st3v3r wrote: post #195

"For months and months, they'd been unfairly denigrating Trump supporters" If you support a candidate who espouses racist, sexist, xenophobic, and general bigoted views, a candidate who was caught on tape as bragging about sexual assault, then it is not unfair to paint you as supporting those things. To me, anyone who supports Trump has declared their support for those things. And it is on them to prove that they are…

Show me where Trump is racist. Show me just one example.

I googled "trump racist comments" - and got a slew of articles. Here is but one from Fortune:

http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/

"A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage"

"Black guys counting my money! I hate it"

"Least racist person on earth"

There's three. You can find more. As far as the last one, one might argue "How is that racist?"

Guess what - when you aren't racist, you don't need to declare it. Plus - that comment technically suggests that at a minimum, he admits that he's possibly just "a little" racist...

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