Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#451

Post by emcq » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 5:15 AM UTC

rntz wrote: post #349

emcq wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ones man's anecdotes are anothers statistics. I haven't seen any data driven evidence for this, but let's use a thought experiment: would you expect it is more likely for professional athletes to come from a background of playing sports and being active from a young age? I think most people would say yes except to play devil's advocate. Becoming a top caliber athlete requires years of conditioning, experience predict…

Are teachers, accountants, mathematicians, scientists, doctors, or lawyers known for practicing to get into their respective fields in elementary & middle school? Not so much. Even for the most demanding fields, we expect them to begin to specialize only in their high school years. To my mind, the fields which are known for requiring training from childhood are sports and the performing arts (music, theatre). And if…

Mathematicians, scientists, and doctors absolutely! Catching and dissecting frogs, joining math clubs, debate teams, etc. It's not a requirement but when I think of the best folks in their respective fields they did not start in college. It's not that they've specialized from a young age, but they had long term passions for the tools useful for their field.

What early education provides is a safety net when things become tough. My classmates without this preparation had a much more difficult path and many eventually dropped out. The psychological effect of impostor syndrome is a component to picking field to study in college; those who feel they have a harder time than their peers are less likely to continue in the field long term.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#452

Post by Joof » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 5:25 AM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #449

Joof wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least to Canadians we can point out 'French' Canada. The people are different, but still Canadian.

You really want to hold up Quebec's relationship with Canada as a shining example of good integration?

Not at all. But it seems like a good example of very separate cultures developing in the same nation.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#453

Post by wavefunction » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 5:44 AM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #294

joslin01 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 I see where you're coming from now. You're right about America and the culture of minorities, but in the melting pot, that's how everyone kind of is. We all feel like we have to be someone in America. It's impossible to just be American since there's really no such thing. The traditional American is a mid-western cowboy and that doesn't really apply to people on either coast.

Exactly -- French people are the "indigenous people" of France. The "indigenous people" where I'm from are the Tohono O'odham. I've never met a Tohono O'odham person, so it's safe to say their impact on culture is minor. Thus, it's wrong to separate the US into "indigenous" and "foreign" in a way that makes sense in France (where French==indigenous). It's especially wrong to do so and then magically declare that Angl…

There's no such thing as indigenous French people. Cultures between different regions like Brittany and Provence are quite different. The whole idea of European identities being strongly tied to nationalism and established defined groups is rather silly in my opinion. How about Alsace-Lorraine? German, or French? Belgium, is it Flemish or Walloon? Germany has different cultural regions, especially after the division following WWII. Italians have their own divisions between the North and South and other variations. The Scandinavian countries probably best fit a supposed monolithic national culture but that's changing with recent immigrants. The best that can be said is that language defines the peoples of Europe at this time.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#454

Post by wbl » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 5:49 AM UTC

joslin01 wrote: post #139

pingou wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I'm not an expert but it seems to me that in France we expect minorities to leave a good part of their culture and become "real french", eat cheese, wear beret and never walk without a baguette under their arms, whereas in the US I was under the impression that there's a lot more effort from minorities to differentiate themselves. I don't think we can really talk of a "black culture" in France (at least not in t…

+1 I see where you're coming from now. You're right about America and the culture of minorities, but in the melting pot, that's how everyone kind of is. We all feel like we have to be someone in America. It's impossible to just be American since there's really no such thing. The traditional American is a mid-western cowboy and that doesn't really apply to people on either coast.

The cowboy only emerges in the 1840's. The New England farmer has been around a lot longer, since the 1600's. And yes, there is a culture of rural New England: things like contra dances, boiled dinners, etc.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#455

Post by abecedarius » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 6:08 AM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #437

alistproducer2 wrote: post #187

I'm a black guy working in IT at a company in the top 5 of the Fortune 500. This is complicated issue. There have been experiment that show having a "black" name lowers your job prospects [1]. Other studies that show: "...race actually turned out to be more significant than a criminal background. Notice that employers were more likely to call Whites with a criminal record (17% were offered an interview) than Blacks w…

Sounds like a good solution is to strip names from CVs when reviewing them. People are fallible, and often racist/sexist/discriminatory in general, even subconsciously. I wonder if this effect is the same with black recruiters, or if it goes the opposite way. It's very much normal for people to favour people similar to them, by race, gender, religion, etc.

The Recurse Center does this with their applications -- they substitute randomly-generated names like Spandex Reindeer. Great idea.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#456

Post by dlreeves » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 6:29 AM UTC

PhearTheCeal wrote: post #259

pc86 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not stretching it at all. It's literally what she said: > as the only African American on her team, she didn’t feel she had much in common with her colleagues.

Seems quite prejudiced of her to simply look at her colleagues skin color and assume that she doesn't have much in common with them. Unless by "much" she means "her skin color", but that seems even more racist. I'll give the article the benefit of the doubt.

What makes you feel that she is making this judgement based on skin color? From my reading it sounds like she tried going to lunch with her coworkers and the conversations that naturally came up were not of interest to her.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#457

Post by rntz » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 6:42 AM UTC

emcq wrote: post #451

rntz wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are teachers, accountants, mathematicians, scientists, doctors, or lawyers known for practicing to get into their respective fields in elementary & middle school? Not so much. Even for the most demanding fields, we expect them to begin to specialize only in their high school years. To my mind, the fields which are known for requiring training from childhood are sports and the performing arts (music, theatre). And if…

Mathematicians, scientists, and doctors absolutely! Catching and dissecting frogs, joining math clubs, debate teams, etc. It's not a requirement but when I think of the best folks in their respective fields they did not start in college. It's not that they've specialized from a young age, but they had long term passions for the tools useful for their field. What early education provides is a safety net when things be…

Sure, but I wasn't talking about what it takes to be the best in your field. I was talking about what it takes to even be given a fair shot. (Original comment: "If you didn't spend a lot of time with computers on your own before college, you're not in the running.")

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#458

Post by dlreeves » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 6:52 AM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #94

taconacho wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that surprising. Howard University is 95% black (source: http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1024 " rel="nofollow">http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl... ) and is one of the lowest ranked colleges in terms of diversity. Coming from such a culturally closed-off environment to a different one comprised mostly of whites and Asians of different eth…

It'd be an irony if part of the reason students at HBCUs don't "mesh" with Silicon Valley is that they're not comfortable with diverse environments. Looking at a list of the "whitest" universities, their graduates seem similarly unrepresented in the places I've worked. A flawed but interesting test: do black CS graduates from Stanford and MIT fit better into SV than black CS graduates from Howard?

As a black alum from MIT and feel I can speak to this anecdotally. Here are some distinction to keep in mind.

1) From the moment I stepped onto MIT's campus I was actively recruited by Silicon Valley companies. My freshman year was tough getting much attention, but recruiters would talk to me and generally gave off the vibe that I was wanted. Contrast this with going to a HBCU where these companies are not present on campus, or if they do show up its only for a day or two for a career fair. You wouldn't feel as welcome coming there.

2) I had black friends who were upperclassman who had "made it" in SV. They could offer advice and guidance. When I moved out to SV I also had them as part of social circle so I had social ties outside of work. Coming from a HBCU its likely you do not know anyone who works at these companies. You also do not know anyone who lives in the area to socialize this. If you do not relate to the people from work then you have trouble making friends.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#459

Post by yummyfajitas » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 6:52 AM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #113

officemonkey wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were a game, it would be called "Whiteness unlocked." An Indian- or Chinese-American can attain "no longer considered minority" (aka whiteness) but African-Americans don't get that achievement.

I'm not sure how a first-generation immigrant with skin 80% as dark as a random African-American who celebrates Diwali instead of Christmas, follows cricket instead of (American!) football, and favors rice puddings to apple pies is actually statistically deserving of the "no longer considered minority" flag in America, financially successful or not. It sounds more like some people are changing their criteria as they…

I don't know if you intended it this way, but you seem to be portraying Indian culture as just American culture s/Jesus/ganpati/ s/baseball/cricket/ etc. These things, while accurate, barely scratch the surface.

It really is different here, and not just the food. E.g., asking about family is routine (in a manner uncommon in the US), and I intuitively grasp certain social mixing/separation that is just different from the US.

From what I've observed, these gaps are vastly larger (read: earth/jupiter vs earth/moon) than the gap between various western subcultures.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#460

Post by dlreeves » Fri, Jan 22, 2016, 7:09 AM UTC

pofjer wrote: post #74

PaulHoule wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what is so hard about it. Everybody gets treated unfairly from time to time, feels awkward, etc. When you are "black" you don't know the line between racism and man's general inhumanity towards man.

How about not assuming racism in the first place? It may just be that you are new and people are not accustomed to having you as a part of their group. I'm sure that even if some of them have prejudices, they will accept you as soon as you show them what you are made of and that you are trustworthy. I'm sure everyone knows at least one sh hole from their race, so they can accept a decent person from another one when…

> How about not assuming racism in the first place?

Except there is clear evidence that unconscious bias exist. To test your own you can try some of the tests as part of ProjectImplicit (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/) Pretending it does not exist is not really helpful advice.