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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#441

Post by nimbosa »

mnglkhn2 wrote: post #99

At the moment .NET is making great inroads into all mobile platforms (mainly due to Xamarin's iOS and Android platforms). The one area where Microsoft needs to push more i son the server side: to be able to develop ASP.NET apps and push them to Linux servers. You can do it now but not as smooth and stable as it should be. When this happens, then the circle is complete: you can write both client and server code in C#/…

i think the potential for F# just got bigger and better with a brighter future!

this pretty much highlights the whole movement at Microsoft +Xamarin: (and directly answers most of the questions in this thread) Microsoft intends to make Xamarin's job a lot easier and realign its developer-oriented strategy in the same direction

Scott Hanselman outlines it concisely here (http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx):

Delivering on its promise to support cross-platform development, Microsoft is providing the full .NET server stack in open source, including ASP.NET, the .NET compiler, the .NET Core Runtime, Framework and Libraries, enabling developers to build with .NET across Windows, Mac or Linux. Through this implementation, Microsoft will work closely with the open source community, taking contributions for future improvements to .NET and will work through the .NET Foundation.

“A strong, open source, cross-platform CLR opens significant new options for building large server-based systems,” said Brian McCallister, chief technology officer, Groupon. “This significantly expands the choices developers have when finding the right tool to solve their problem. I’m very excited to have access to the quality virtual machine and tooling of the CLR without having to completely rework our production infrastructure in order to run it!” ____

this will be of great interest to those already using the CLR as it gives more incentive to those developers / dev shops

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#443

Post by sandyarmstrong »

megaman821 wrote: post #133
migueldeicaza wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already do this today. Miguel

What do you use for GUI apps? GTK or native Core.Graphics libraries?

Xamarin.Mac is all about native Cocoa app development in C#.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#444

Post by jacquesm »

yarou wrote: post #435
jacquesm wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a public corporation, they have an obligation to maximize value for shareholders. I keep hearing that but I don't actually believe that is true. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-the-m...

Perhaps obligation is a poor word choice. I meant it more in the sense of the invisible hand and rationality. As a rational actor, Microsoft was maximizing their utility, given whatever their utility function/curve is.

By that reason we should all go into the drugs trade. I don't buy that for a second. Rational actors are not normally driven to illegal behavior unless someone makes a decision to that effect saying 'damn the consequences, let's commit this crime'. That's a very dangerous line to cross. It came within a whisker of getting Microsoft to be broken up and I can't believe that they would have taken that risk if they knew that was a possible consequence. And I firmly believe they should have been broken up, that would have sent a strong signal that anti-competitive behavior is not acceptable. Instead, now we have a bigger mess.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#445

Post by yarou »

rbanffy wrote: post #417
yarou wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is not about Microsoft just doing 'stupid stuff sometimes' it is about institutionalized criminal behavior sanctioned at the highest level of one of the largest software companies in the world. Welcome to American corporate culture :) You have to keep in mind that Microsoft had a monopoly for a very long time. While their actions may, in your world view, be "criminal", as a corporation Microsoft was acting comp…

Maximizing shareholder value would also include, I suppose, keeping the company reputation good enough so that talented people would still want to work with them and their products. That's not what happened here. I too was a Microsoft enthusiast once, but their bad behavior made me turn my back on them. Jacques and myself are certainly not alone in that decision.

In theory, yes, and these days reputation plays an extremely important role because of the massive amounts of network effects social media and the like provide. I was never a fan of Microsoft because they historically shipped substandard products. (I remember the days of windows 3.1 on my p2)

My post was merely trying to indicate that what Microsoft did in a monopoly position is not in any way unique or special. Every monopoly will behave in this manner, because corporations are rational actors.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#446

Post by rasmuskl »

bad_user wrote: post #400
jbooth wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a random line from the Scala standard collections library: def :+[B >: A, That](elem: B)(implicit bf: CanBuildFrom[Repr, B, That]): That This is from the standard collections library. In Java, I've got a List.add function. In case it's not clear from the name, 'add', I can click through to the implementation and it's pretty obvious what's happening. In Scala, I've got +, ++, +:, :+, and a bunch of other nonsen…

For a Scala developer that signature makes sense. You want to add an element of type B to your collection with elements of type A, however the addition of an element of type B may not be supported (e.g. you may want to add a String to a BitSet and get in return a plain Set[Any]), so the above works only as long as there is a builder available that can build the new collection. The function also works on covariant col…

Oh btw C# does have immutable collections now. Adoption isn't too high yet AFAIK, but they're pretty awesome..

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn385366(v=vs.110).a...

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#447

Post by V-2 »

jpgvm wrote: post #327
aerique wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What languages have you got experience with that you feel C# is the best language you have worked with? And what makes it such a good language for you?

Generics, Partial Classes, awesome Reflection API, Lambda syntax, LINQ, C/C++ compatibility, async/await, concurrency primitives, etc. I have worked with prettier languages, for instance I have picked up Haskell recently, I have also worked with faster languages, C was my forte for many years and I have worked with languages in the GSD category like Ruby and Python. C# is appealing not because of some feature that it…

I would add "yield" to your lits - a small feature, but it allows for very elegant code and easy implementation of deferred evaluation / execution.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#448

Post by danielweber »

JackC wrote: post #385
tlb wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious whether, with the fullness of technological hindsight, you still deplore what they did to Netscape. Microsoft was the first to release a free browser included with the OS. That killed Netscape's business of selling browsers on a CD for $40, and Netscape was understandably upset. It now seems clear that an OS needs a browser included, at least so you can read documentation and download the browser of your…

It's not the "what" they did to Netscape (releasing a free browser), it's the illegal "why" they did it (to break the cross-platform web). As the government wrote in a trial brief: "In short, Microsoft feared and sought to impede the development of network effects that cross-platform technology like Netscape Navigator and Java might enjoy and use to challenge Microsoft's monopoly. Another internal Microsoft document…

I was just thinking of "embrace, extend, extinguish" when reading through the class-action about Apple routing texts over its own network, so people switching away from Apple would think that Android's texts were broken.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#449

Post by freehunter »

jacquesm wrote: post #390
freehunter wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"a bribery scandal involving distributors selling Microsoft products" I'm not sure Best Buy reflects that poorly on Microsoft. >"They reportedly have raised over $5.5 billion from many large companies including Microsoft, Intel, Sony, Nokia, Apple, Google, Yahoo, American Express, Adobe, SAP, Nvidia, and eBay, plus investment firms such as Stanford, Hewlett Foundation, Mayo Clinic, and Charles River Ventures." Again…

> I'm not sure Best Buy reflects that poorly on Microsoft. Best buy didn't enter into it, you probably did not fully read the link. This was about Romania, not about the USA. > Again, doesn't reflect that poorly on Microsoft. It does, because IV is best described as a patent troll in a nice suit. > Is a software sales company supposed to not sell software? That's what they do. How does that reflect poorly on them? Be…

1. A Microsoft distributor != Microsoft.

2. Every major tech company is involved with IV, so stop shitting on just Microsoft. Go troll and derail someone else's comments.

3. That's called selling.

I'm not going to argue with a nutjob anymore. I'm happy you're happy, and your original comment wasn't offensive. What is offensive is people like you (including you) constantly pulling this shit. Just ignore it. Just move on. Go comment on articles that are interesting to you, involving companies or people or organizations you don't despise. Just stop fucking dragging down legitimate discussions with the line "they're evil", and stop pulling the defense "I just don't like evil companies, that's all". You're not innocent. You're just being an asshole.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#450

Post by danielweber »

Someone1234 wrote: post #283
jacquesm wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm curious whether, with the fullness of technological hindsight, you still deplore what they did to Netscape. Absolutely. I dislike tied sales, I dislike having to buy a Microsoft operating system with my hardware just as much as I dislike getting IE (or chrome or any other browser) forcefully rammed down my throat when I buy an operating system. I'm pretty sure you can guess what browser I'm using to type this c…

> Does it? Yes. You say you want choice, but if you didn't have a browser how would you download the browser of your choice? Osmosis? Or, more importantly how would your average user download their browser? Every OS since then (OSS or not) has shipped with a browser and has made it the default for any API rendering that needs to occur (e.g. Ubuntu, Android, OS X, Windows, iOS, Firefox OS, etc). Netscape's business mo…

I know people who are pissed because Microsoft bundled in their own TCP/IP stack, which killed the companies that were selling TCP/IP stacks for Windows.

When I ask them "can you imagine any OS delivered today without that bundled in?" they change the subject.

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