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LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

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Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#441

Post by HPsquared »

laylower wrote: post #410
HPsquared wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voice recognition is really useful when searching. It's annoying to type with a TV remote. Also you can just say what you want like "play breaking bad on Netflix" and it'll just do it. Edit: also the mic in the remote has a function to calibrate the speakers to the room (correcting for the impulse response of the room basically) which can make the audio much better.

The reason is annoying to type is that they prefer you say it out loud, not because they can't provide a better ui.

Even with easy typing, it's a single step (say what you want) vs multiple UI operations. This applies to cars too.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#442

Post by mftrhu »

rlpb wrote: post #350
ryandrake wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it's not even about why they're doing it (building an advertising profile). I don't want them doing it at all, for any reason. When I buy something from the store, my relationship is between me and the store, for the 30 seconds it takes for me to pay for it. I don't want an ongoing relationship with the device manufacturer. I don't want to be tethered in any way to the manufacturer. I don't want to have an acc…

> I don't want an ongoing relationship with the device manufacturer. I think it depends on the device. If I buy an iPhone, I have the expectation of installing apps on it after purchase, and that necessarily involves a relationship with the app store provider (ie. Apple), not the store I bought the phone from. With a TV, I suppose it depends on whether I want to install media apps like Prime Video or Netflix on it. I…

> If I buy an iPhone, I have the expectation of installing apps on it after purchase, and that necessarily involves a relationship with the app store provider (ie. Apple), not the store I bought the phone from.

That's because Apple supplies both the hardware and the software. Being a software supplier - the only such supplier - they need to keep being involved. This wouldn't be the case if third-party OSes existed for the iPhone - it doesn't need to be the case for M1/M2 MacBooks, for example, thanks to Asahi, or for any x86-based hardware.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#443

Post by Matl »

llm_nerd wrote: post #161
sgc wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you giving a shady company with shady terms and shady history the benefit of the doubt?

Because when people cry wolf, and then there is no wolf, it actually harms the consumer by lowering everyone's guard. Have people not learned this yet? Gamers Nexus discovered recently, through their "AMD blacklisting" bit (when some relatively minor mid-lifecycle refresh of a product they didn't get a demo unit, so it turned into some "we are the truthsayers!" bit), that doing the Louis Rossmann routine earns them l…

I agree with you re Gamers Nexus, but honestly I'd rather have Gamers Nexus than not anyways.

> Saw another video where a big channel talks about why TVs are so cheap now, and they then explain it that it's because they sell your data. In the real world, the selling data bit, ACR, and so on

> is absolutely tiny dollars business. TVs are cheap because massive factories are pumping out these almost entirely plastic products in enormous numbers,

Right, and Windows Recall is not technically spying on what you're doing etc. etc.

It seems to me like you're being pedantic but essentially end up seeming like shady corporate practices are fine with you over somewhat inaccurate claims that nonetheless point to a real problem?

Yes, TVs aren't cheap because of (only/primarily) ACR but the points stands that ACR shouldn't be a thing on a TV I fully paid for and nobody but me, who paid for the TV, should 'own the glass'.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#444

Post by nkohari »

zephyreon wrote: post #232

> Features such as Automatic Content Recognition (ACR), voice recognition, and interest-based advertising are optional. These features are not enabled by default. Users can choose to enable these features and can manage or withdraw consent through TV settings. They may be optional features but I’m pretty sure when I set up my tv and got to the screen where you are required to agree to the various terms and privacy le…

Not only are they enabled by default, you can't easily turn them off. I turn the features off, and every time the firmware updates, they miraculously somehow turn back on. I finally gave up and disconnected the TVs from the internet and put an Apple TV on them instead.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#445

Post by Lammy »

wongarsu wrote: post #216
seemaze wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any useful resources for finding devices that don't have surveillance apparatus built in? I'm still not purchasing a television. The last thing I need is more screen time in my life.

You'd be looking for what's now called a "dumb tv". But those are getting rare, because TVs that can't sell your watch data have to be more expensive to make up for that, and that doesn't sell. Commercial screens are an option, as are computer monitors. Or getting a smart tv and never connecting it to the internet. So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know.…

Or a projector, which is a way better experience anyway if you can stand having a curtained room.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#446

Post by like_any_other »

cogman10 wrote: post #62
rpdillon wrote: post #18

LG's statement: > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. Th…

> So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. It's probably easier to do and every bit as accurate as just using a screenshot. And it's still exactly what I don't want them doing. There's literally zero reason for LG to be building an advertising profile on me because I was foolish enough to buy one of their…

> an advertising profile

It's going to be so easy to determine who you voted for, given a record of every TV show and news programme you've watched, to 90% accuracy. Or to determine if you'd be a "corporate culture fit" when you're next looking for a job. Or an apartment. Or to find whether anything matching the hash of some trade secret documents was displayed on your TV (or ever connected to it [1]) - the "advertising" firm will be forced to hand over documents on you through lawsuit discovery and the wonderful 3rd party doctrine.

Have you been watching media associated with "woke subversion"? "Islamic extremism"? "Far-right hate"? "Incitement to subversion of state power" [2]?

They're not building an advertising profile. They're building a profile. Ads are just the most common known use-case at the moment. But the profile will remain long after ads become the least of your concerns. Consider how such a profile would have been used during the cultural revolution.

If the government required you to submit a record of every book you read or own, people would rightly freak out. How is this any different?

[1] LG Smart TVs log USB filenames and viewing info to LG servers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426

[2] Hong Kong's Tiananmen activists sentenced to up to seven years in prison - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgyvk2djk4o

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#447

Post by throwaway2037 »

rpdillon wrote: post #18

LG's statement: > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. Th…

Real question here: As I understand, voice (sound) recognition technology mostly uses hidden Markov models, instead of LLM/AI. Do I misunderstand? I think this is how Dragon NaturallySpeaking and Shazam works.

To be clear: I do not agree with any of Samsung's and LG's efforts to record sounds/words from user homes!

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#449

Post by ralferoo »

> Automatic content recognition (ACR) is an opt-in feature according to LG, which delivers personalized content recommendations, as well as services and advertisements.

And content recommendations, services and advertisements are exactly what most customers don't want.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#450

Post by rolandog »

lazide wrote: post #435
wat10000 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They realize. They hate it and wish it would go away. LAN connectivity makes it really hard to spy on you, inject ads, require subscriptions, and brick perfectly functional devices so you have to buy new ones.

No it doesn’t? They can do all these things just fine over a LAN connection (assuming it routes externally). If you can firewall your LAN - you can also firewall your WiFi.

Except some of the TVs try to connect to unprotected hotspots, or piggyback through ISP's routers' hidden secondary SSIDs. Which even opens people's data and ambient conversations finding their way to the manufacturer or advertisers through war-driving.
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