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Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

bbc.com

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Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#441

Post by bArray »

vidarh wrote: post #74
bArray wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel the UK were wrong to leave [..] Whether it was the correct decision or not, it was done via a democratic vote. Now the leaders of the UK look to entangle the UK into the EU structure that is evidently against their mandate.

The vote was to leave or stay - there was no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU before even considering how drastically opinions have shifted since.

> no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU

Then do you not support another vote that provides this option?

> how drastically opinions have shifted since

There is a way to conduct a poll that represents the engaged electorate - have another vote.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#442

Post by bArray »

exceptione wrote: post #47
bArray wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel the UK were wrong to leave [..] Whether it was the correct decision or not, it was done via a democratic vote. Now the leaders of the UK look to entangle the UK into the EU structure that is evidently against their mandate.

That mandate has quite changed, even more when you look at the non-retired cohorts. Reintegration with the EU will take plenty of time.

Has it? It would take another vote to show it for sure, and the current government is simply not wanting to ask the people.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#443

Post by bArray »

dgellow wrote: post #87
bArray wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel the UK were wrong to leave [..] Whether it was the correct decision or not, it was done via a democratic vote. Now the leaders of the UK look to entangle the UK into the EU structure that is evidently against their mandate.

The vote wasn’t binding and had a low turnout. Not really a good example to point to for democratic voting

Does that mean when a government is elected by a low turnout, that it is also not democratic? The current UK government was elected on a 59.7% electorate turnout [1], whereas Brexit was decided based on a 72.2% electorate turnout [2].

[1] https://closer.ac.uk/contextual-data/turnout-uk-general-elec...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_Kingdom_European_U...

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#444

Post by bArray »

phatfish wrote: post #101
dgellow wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vote wasn’t binding and had a low turnout. Not really a good example to point to for democratic voting

It wasn't binding so the normal procedure and checks around a referendum could be ignored. Like disenfranchising the British citizens living in the EU. Democratic indeed...

It was just an exercise in testing the mood of the nation, don't you see? Just like a general election, if the electorate vote the wrong party, it is perfectly fine to just ignore the result.

The vote was non-binding due to the sovereignty of parliament [1]. It means that if a war broke out or the economy crashed, they would not be forced to continue at great detriment to the UK. But it doesn't mean that the vote was a mere suggestion - anybody who suggests such doesn't understand democracy.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_Kingdom_European_U...

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#445

Post by Ekaros »

inigyou wrote: post #380
p-e-w wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, Vatican, Liechtenstein.

Switzerland is the only relevant one really. Norway is practically a member in all but name (Not all members use euros) and the rest are microstates.

Norway is a weird one... They have things like Schengen. But some how they are not part of customs union. While Türkiye is member of customs union but not Schengen...

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#446

Post by bArray »

flaburgan wrote: post #72
bArray wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel the UK were wrong to leave [..] Whether it was the correct decision or not, it was done via a democratic vote. Now the leaders of the UK look to entangle the UK into the EU structure that is evidently against their mandate.

Democratic vote which has since then been proved to be heavily influenced by the Cambridge Analytica campaign, so which probably did not reflect the actual opinion of the population. It was a manipulated vote.

I remember the UK government at the time spent £9.3 million of taxpayer's money to push a pro-EU leaflet out [1], not to mention a concerted effort from the news media. It's not as if there was not strong campaigning happening on both sides.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-EU_leaflet

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#447

Post by bArray »

snowpid wrote: post #48
bArray wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel the UK were wrong to leave [..] Whether it was the correct decision or not, it was done via a democratic vote. Now the leaders of the UK look to entangle the UK into the EU structure that is evidently against their mandate.

The majority of UK inhabitans wants to rejoin the EU. It is indeed democratically legitime.

If only there was a type of nation-wide poll that could be conducted to make such claims so strongly. Maybe we pick a single day, each side makes their cases to the people, and then they cast their choices to be counted. But I guess it can't be done.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#448

Post by Ekaros »

mixdup wrote: post #67

It seems odd to hold a referendum on holding talks. Why not just negotiate an agreement and then hold a referendum on that agreement?

After whole Brexit debacle I think it is prudent to actually first figure out if there is general willingness. EU might have better stuff to do than spend resources on formal talks according to proper procedures.

Coming up with agreement and then simply rejecting could postpone next opportunity or make the next agreement come from less hospitable starting point.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#449

Post by ViewTrick1002 »

inigyou wrote: post #439
ViewTrick1002 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And anyone would be allowed to bid on the fishing quotas? What’s the difference between a ferry and a fishing boat?

The difference is that there isn't a limited number of ferry licenses. They aren't rivalrous. Sure the government is paying for one to make sure there's at least one, but anyone could.

Of course they are rivalrous. Contracts change, boats get laid up and people are forced to change employers.

You can imagine on popular routes where you get to keep the proceeds that you instead pay for the right to operate it.

What’s the difference to paying for being allowed a quota to fish in the waters said ferry service runs a passenger service in?

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#450

Post by philistine »

1718627440 wrote: post #405
Reason077 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”This means giving up all the advantages of central banking … It's a marker of a failed state.” There are a number of countries/territories which have their “own” currency, but its value (exchange rate) is fixed directly to the USD: • Hong Kong • Saudi Arabia • United Arab Emirates • Qatar • Jordan • Oman • Bahrain • Panama • etc These are not failed states!

That's different from not having an own currency in use at all.

Not significantly. Your point that only failed states decide to use another nation's currency is automatically a failed state is simply untrue. It can be a marker, but it's not an automatic mark. Montenegro is not a failed state.
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