Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 629 posts

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#441

Post by FinnLobsien »

erentz wrote: post #289
FinnLobsien wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree to some degree. But by that logic, should kids in the 2000s not have learned about the internet because the internet fundamentally changed between then and now? I think that if anything, it’s really good I learned how to operate a computer and the Internet BEFORE what the Internet became. I pity the generation who don’t understand a computer’s folder structure because they grew up with smartphones and TikTok.

Your example would call more to create an "information technology" subject in schools, that updates its curriculum to include changes like the development of AI. Thus, you go to that class, some of your coursework in the year is going to involve learning about AI and how it works, what it can and cannot do, using it for some project, so on. Not using AI for doing your homework in every other subject.

Yep good point. I’m not defending using AI to do homework.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#442

Post by FinnLobsien »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #398
FinnLobsien wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree to some degree. But by that logic, should kids in the 2000s not have learned about the internet because the internet fundamentally changed between then and now? I think that if anything, it’s really good I learned how to operate a computer and the Internet BEFORE what the Internet became. I pity the generation who don’t understand a computer’s folder structure because they grew up with smartphones and TikTok.

> should kids in the 2000s not have learned about the internet Yes. Emphatically yes. In elementary school? The kids who were online in elementary school—literally in school—who got like how-to-use-AOL lessons? They almost certainly underperform those who learned about the Internet at home or later in life. This is like those stupid keyboarding classes in the 2000s. It was obviously a waste of time compared with deve…

I agree and I think some of the comments here have shifted my perspective on this, especially given the age.

I think with teaching anything, there’s always going to be a difference between teaching the tactics (e.g. how to use AOL) vs the fundamentals (what’s the internet, how do computers work)

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#443

Post by solid_fuel »

gpt5 wrote: post #247
solid_fuel wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing material here has changed in the last few years. Bald faced lies from you, nothing surprising here. I could take the time in explaining how state and federal responsibilities are divided, I could go through the history of the Department of Education and how funding for schools works in the US. I could point to dozens of examples of you being wrong from any decade in the last century, from de-segregation to…

Please do share how education policy has materially changed in the last couple of years instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks?

I already told you I'm not going to waste time debating you, there's no point since you aren't engaging in good faith.

I will say though, for someone so convinced that "political/ideological commentors" are harshing the vibe here on Hacker News, you sure seem eager to start and encourage political debates.

Why don't you try being the change you want to see

<3 Happy Pride Month

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#444

Post by calgoo »

cornholio wrote: post #391
truncate wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree! For anyone who still thinks kids should use AI, another argument to make is we are still figuring out AI (hence the constant debate on it, hype, uncertainty, boundaries of its capabilities etc etc). I don't think anyone with right mind can disagree with that. Keeping that mind, wouldn't it make sense to at-the-very-least tread with caution when it comes to kids.

The counterargument is that kids will live in a world different from our own. For example, in many countries children lost the ability to write cursive; that used to be a critical skill comparable to literacy itself. But in our current society, that's no longer the case and you can be very successful without it, but there are other skills, such as using technology, that became critical. Any definitive claim to know w…

My 6 year olds have been writing cursive at school all year, they have a zero policy about phones until the age ~15, and still use books for everything. Not many schools do this anymore, but there are schools that still do.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#445

Post by lelanthran »

bendriv wrote: post #184
bko wrote: post #13

Im confused, are there tasks given to 6 to 13 year old to use AI? In the classroom, are they just throwing gpt in front of them? Is that the modern equivalent of watching a vhs? Or do they have homework to vibe code something or given some prompts to ask at home and save somewhere? Serious question, what does this mean?

I have three children in that age span in a Norwegian school. For the ages 10-13, ChatGPT and the like has frequently been used in the classroom to help with the cold start problem when doing writing assignments, and for getting feedback on written work before handing in to the teachers. Also frequently used as a brainstorming tool or for writing whole speaches or presentations that should be held in front of the cla…

> ChatGPT and the like has frequently been used in the classroom to help with the cold start problem when doing writing assignments, and for getting feedback on written work before handing in to the teachers. Also frequently used as a brainstorming tool or for writing whole speaches or presentations that should be held in front of the class or school.

Aren't those things critical thinking? We do we want to prevent the acquisition of critical thinking skills.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#446

Post by noufalibrahim »

cornholio wrote: post #391
truncate wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree! For anyone who still thinks kids should use AI, another argument to make is we are still figuring out AI (hence the constant debate on it, hype, uncertainty, boundaries of its capabilities etc etc). I don't think anyone with right mind can disagree with that. Keeping that mind, wouldn't it make sense to at-the-very-least tread with caution when it comes to kids.

The counterargument is that kids will live in a world different from our own. For example, in many countries children lost the ability to write cursive; that used to be a critical skill comparable to literacy itself. But in our current society, that's no longer the case and you can be very successful without it, but there are other skills, such as using technology, that became critical. Any definitive claim to know w…

> Any definitive claim to know what are the right things kids should learn in a moment of rapid technological shift is probably garbage and just a projection of our own biases.

I don't think this is as clear as you make it out to be.

There are areas (e.g. personal care as per the impact map released by Anthropic a few months ago) where the impact of AI will be less than in the ones HN often discusses. Communicating with people is important in many of these areas so making sure that kids "should learn" how to communicate is a good investment regardless of how rapidly technology is shifting. There are different time tested ways of doing this and while you can "disrupt" these a little, throwing them out completely is, at least to me, a bad idea.

OTOH, doubling down on learning "skills for the future" which are all bold bets while sacrificing things that have served humanity through multiple moments of change is probably a bad idea.

As for cursive writing (or atleast handwriting) itself, there are several studies of learning it being associated with developing fine motor control, improving memory, improving focus. I can't find them right now but I remember reading them because of my own interest in calligraphy. Many older (especially religious) traditions place emphasis on using written (rather than digitally typeset) books for memorisation because the slight changes in the shapes of the letters act as reinforcements for the process. I know this from experience as well so I think there's definitely value there.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#447

Post by ifdefdebug »

cornholio wrote: post #391
truncate wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree! For anyone who still thinks kids should use AI, another argument to make is we are still figuring out AI (hence the constant debate on it, hype, uncertainty, boundaries of its capabilities etc etc). I don't think anyone with right mind can disagree with that. Keeping that mind, wouldn't it make sense to at-the-very-least tread with caution when it comes to kids.

The counterargument is that kids will live in a world different from our own. For example, in many countries children lost the ability to write cursive; that used to be a critical skill comparable to literacy itself. But in our current society, that's no longer the case and you can be very successful without it, but there are other skills, such as using technology, that became critical. Any definitive claim to know w…

Everybody and their grandma can "use AI". Reading (and understanding what you read), writing (coherently) and calculating (in your head) are those basic skills that need to be trained and will give you an advantage no matter in what kind of world you live.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#448

Post by da_grift_shift »

cornholio wrote: post #391
truncate wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree! For anyone who still thinks kids should use AI, another argument to make is we are still figuring out AI (hence the constant debate on it, hype, uncertainty, boundaries of its capabilities etc etc). I don't think anyone with right mind can disagree with that. Keeping that mind, wouldn't it make sense to at-the-very-least tread with caution when it comes to kids.

The counterargument is that kids will live in a world different from our own. For example, in many countries children lost the ability to write cursive; that used to be a critical skill comparable to literacy itself. But in our current society, that's no longer the case and you can be very successful without it, but there are other skills, such as using technology, that became critical. Any definitive claim to know w…

You're absolutely right! Joined-up penmanship is exactly the same as our current asymmetry in absorbing reams of soullessly verbose, arrogant pablum shat out by the latest crop of "frontier" LLMs.

    Heirloom Groceries

    Sponsored

    La Mesa Roja Enchilada Kit

    In stock • $14.99 • 25-35 minutes

    Ads do not influence the answers you get from ChatGPT. Your chats stay private.

    Learn about ads and personalization >

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#449

Post by LtWorf »

charcircuit wrote: post #132
LtWorf wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep… I mean scientific studies seem to suggest that you are completely wrong. But big science is all a conspiracy against those AI companies that work so hard for the betterment of mankind after all.

I believe my eyes more than studies. I have learned so much, so fast through the process of talking with LLMs.

And you are a pedagogy expert and a teacher to young children?

If not, perhaps accept that the people who have more than absolutely zero experience have more informed opinions.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#450

Post by [deleted] »

solid_fuel wrote: post #87
LtWorf wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, norwegian kids would probably fail because they don't have a clue how much 50 feet are.

> To be fair, norwegian kids would probably fail because they don't have a clue how much 50 feet are. I... are you an LLM? The distance doesn't matter - you probably don't want to walk to the car wash .

[deleted]
Post reply on HN