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Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

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Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#441

Post by omnimus »

jondlm wrote: post #423
omnimus wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “The people running these companies certainly aren't good people” That is an heavy understatement. After reading some biographies and books about the tech elite… it's just much weirder and sickly than i ever imagined. Strange cults, religions and beliefs. Surprisingly high stupidity mixed with intense hate of humans. Straight up anti-social anti-human behaviour… and drugs, so much drugs that lead to psychosis. Narc…

You're not wrong. I also think it's a trap to think they're in a fundamentally different category than we are. Yes, the blast radius of their harm can be enormous. _And_ they're humans like you and me. Likely hiding deep wounds of their own that are screaming for care-full attention.

Oh I agree. System that puts people like this in power also doesn't allow for them to really get help. Nobody should have this kind of power.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#442

Post by ben_w »

slg wrote: post #421
ben_w wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just think how much could a company charge Germany to extend the life of its citizens, could Germany actually afford to pay that price especially if and when it tax base shrinks? The time-limited and jurisdiction-limited nature of patents aside, one of the great things about being a country is you can do things like pass laws saying "we have decided to force you to sell to us at the price we specify, and if you ref…

>one of the great things about being a country is you can do things like pass laws saying "we have decided to force you to sell to us at the price we specify, and if you refuse we will shoot you". But these companies aren’t based in Germany, so you’re talking about invading other nations. It’s starting to sound like this version of the optimistic outcome is World War 3.

If they want to do business in German* jurisdiction, they operate in Germany*. Doesn't matter where the HQ is, as Musk learned the hard way with the also-dramatic-but-less-so case in Brazil.

If they don't want to do business in Germany*, they don't get to file a patent in Germany*, they don't get to sue Germany* for ignoring a patent that was geographically limited to not include Germany*.

* might be "EU", I have not checked.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#443

Post by foltik »

paytonjjones wrote: post #290
wyre wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 60s were 60 years ago. There were regulations back then that protected the common folk and capitalism wasn't as ruthless and aligned with the will of the 0.1% as it is now. I want to be optimistic and agree with you, but I don't think the parallels are as strong as you say they are. We already have Anthropic withhold Mythos from the public, the governement now allowing the use of Fable, I don't think its farfetch…

What regulations do you feel protected common folk from capitalism during the development of computing, and how have they weakened?

Antitrust enforcement.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#444

Post by rayiner »

foltik wrote: post #431
rayiner wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, have you been paying attention to median wages vs median CEO wages since the 1960s CEO pay isn’t a good proxy for “captains of industry.” What you want to look at is the labor versus capital share of income. That’s been very stable since the 1960s: https://taxfoundation.org/blog/labor-share-net-income-within... .

Clearly that's not a good proxy either then... even the article itself says: > Ultimately, concerns over inequality should focus on differences within labor compensation rather than the split between labor and capital. The main issues I can see are: - This "labor share" includes multi-million dollar executive pay packages, so it's heavily skewed towards the 1% - It also completely ignores unrealized capital gains and…

Do those factors meaningfully change the picture? For example, total compensation for Fortune 500 CEOs is only $8.5 billion, which is a rounding error compared to total labor income. And CEOs at the bottom of that range make a few million, so it’s unlikely that CEOs in non-Fortune 500 companies are making the eye popping salaries you’re talking about.

Similarly, what percentage of wealthy people take loans against their assets to fund their lifestyle? You should be able to quantify this if it’s happening at scale.

The income share of the top 1%—so including run of the mill doctors and lawyers—has grown from 15% in 1970 to 21% today: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/income-share-top-1-before.... There is no way that delta is enough to eat up all the income growth since then.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#446

Post by irishcoffee »

ben_w wrote: post #442
slg wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>one of the great things about being a country is you can do things like pass laws saying "we have decided to force you to sell to us at the price we specify, and if you refuse we will shoot you". But these companies aren’t based in Germany, so you’re talking about invading other nations. It’s starting to sound like this version of the optimistic outcome is World War 3.

If they want to do business in German* jurisdiction, they operate in Germany*. Doesn't matter where the HQ is, as Musk learned the hard way with the also-dramatic-but-less-so case in Brazil. If they don't want to do business in Germany*, they don't get to file a patent in Germany*, they don't get to sue Germany* for ignoring a patent that was geographically limited to not include Germany*. * might be "EU", I have not…

Germany does not have the global influence you seem to imply.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#447

Post by slg »

fluoridation wrote: post #439
slg wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can't conclude that computers didn't "actually benefit the average American financially" from these numbers, because these are measuring the total wealth of the household with all factors combined. Fine, I’ll include your disclaimer about confounding factors. With all factors combined, it doesn’t appear that the average American financially benefited over the course of the computer revolution. Do you dispute tha…

Yes, I dispute it. Firstly because it's literally not true by the numbers you're basing it off of, as the mean real family income grew by 40ish% between 1973 and 2023; and secondly because it's a very carefully-worded statement that lends itself to confusion by placing together things that are not necessarily related, like the graph comparing the number of pirates with the global temperature of the Earth. Yes, the da…

Nicely done subtly shifting the conversation from wealth to income. I guess it shouldn't matter that the bottom 90% of Americans have seen their share of wealth decrease since that started being measured in 1989. The median worker should be thrilled as long as their real wages have increased. Who cares if inflation numbers fail to account properly for more nuanced changes to cost of living such as rising education costs being more impactful due to higher college enrollment rates? Who needs to accumulate wealth when your income is growing at almost 1% per year?

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#448

Post by blindhippo »

aix1 wrote: post #291
Simulacra wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the AI customer service, from drive thru to call center AI complete with fake background sounds, I hate it all. As a customer I find it insulting.

Then why do you keep giving them your business? Have things gotten so bad where you live that there are no companies left who would treat you with respect?

In many cases - yes, they have gotten that bad. It's pure fantasy that we live in a free market - there are a handful of companies that own nearly everything, there is very little customer choice or power to "speak with your money".

I do agree though - if one doesn't like the way a company does business, do whatever you can to avoid giving them yours.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#449

Post by fluoridation »

slg wrote: post #447
fluoridation wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I dispute it. Firstly because it's literally not true by the numbers you're basing it off of, as the mean real family income grew by 40ish% between 1973 and 2023; and secondly because it's a very carefully-worded statement that lends itself to confusion by placing together things that are not necessarily related, like the graph comparing the number of pirates with the global temperature of the Earth. Yes, the da…

Nicely done subtly shifting the conversation from wealth to income. I guess it shouldn't matter that the bottom 90% of Americans have seen their share of wealth decrease since that started being measured in 1989. The median worker should be thrilled as long as their real wages have increased. Who cares if inflation numbers fail to account properly for more nuanced changes to cost of living such as rising education co…

>Nicely done subtly shifting the conversation from wealth to income.

I don't see the data on absolute wealth in your link, so I went with what I had.

>I guess it shouldn't matter that the bottom 90% of Americans have seen their share of wealth decrease since that started being measured in 1989. The median worker should be thrilled as long as their real wages have increased.

Well... yes? I mean, should I care that there's a multibillionaire I don't know somewhere in the country amassing an obscene fortune, if I'm living a little more comfortably every year? Most everyone is living better, isn't that fine?

>Who cares if inflation numbers fail to account properly for more nuanced changes to cost of living

How is that my fault? It's the data you used. Why are you using it if you think it has flaws?

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#450

Post by asdga1245 »

fluoridation wrote: post #372
olalonde wrote: post #347

Stated preferences vs revealed preferences. People say they don't like it but they still use it.

I think people don't like it being shoved in their faces and crammed down every hole. No one needs a Copilot key on their keyboard, or an AI summary in prime screen real estate of a Google search. These things (EDIT: by which I mean LLMs) are useful, but they're not that useful. They're not so useful that they should suffuse through every part of every piece of software.

> No one needs a Copilot key on their keyboard [...]

You mean the thing that replaced the right Ctrl key on new laptops? Microsoft needs to leave my modifiers alone, dammit!

Come to think of it, bringing back "Hyper" (both left and right) could be cool.

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