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DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

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Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#441

Post by 59nadir »

xienze wrote: post #408
delfinom wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I really don't see how much longer the US economy can hold on. The baby boomers are working overtime to rob multiple future generations of opportunity to feed their profits now. The formerly "fiscal conservatives" that I know are working overtime explaining how the debt isn't a bad thing and we can just move numbers.

> The formerly "fiscal conservatives" that I know are working overtime explaining how the debt isn't a bad thing and we can just move numbers. Sounds like they're just catching up to what Democrats always used to say whenever a Democrat was in the White House and some Republican would complain about the national debt. "A government isn't a household, debt doesn't work the same way, you don't get it."

That's interesting, because I thought it was common knowledge that Republican presidents actually add more on average to national debt...?

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#442

Post by dietr1ch »

radialstub wrote: post #436
palata wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most smartphones being sold are Android, though.

True, however apple makes the overwhelming majority of the profit in the smartphone market.

For most people Apple's main selling point is about showing off the cute devices and battery life, but that's not going to play a role when users are free to choose the tool that will call the models.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#443

Post by seviu »

bix6 wrote: post #384
seviu wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap power at what cost for our planet? Not long ago we were crying death to bitcoin, it’s going to destroy the planet. Come AI, with unlimited power demand. Everybody screaming we need more power. We need infrastructure, clean energy, even nuclear. We are doing all in the wrong order.

China is the leader in solar?

For a while already

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#444

Post by submain »

hedora wrote: post #346
Nifty3929 wrote: post #306

China may be subsidizing this for now in a way that US companies can't or won't - but if they keep building power infrastructure and the US doesn't, then it will no longer require subsidy from them. It will simply be absolutely cheaper (including profit margin) to serve tokens in China. China is building for the future, while Western Democracies are afraid of the future, and of their own shadow.

I'm not sure how much of it is subsidies. If the open weight models are anything to judge by, China is taking price performance seriously, and the US model vendors are looking for performance at any cost. Like any other Pareto optimization, we end up paying 10x more for the last few percent improvement on benchmark scores. Of course, like literally every other time this has played out in computing history, the compan…

It seems to me China is chasing widespread adoption, while the US is chasing the AGI dream.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#445

Post by gmerc »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #306

China may be subsidizing this for now in a way that US companies can't or won't - but if they keep building power infrastructure and the US doesn't, then it will no longer require subsidy from them. It will simply be absolutely cheaper (including profit margin) to serve tokens in China. China is building for the future, while Western Democracies are afraid of the future, and of their own shadow.

Remember kids, in the west it’s “investment”, in China “subsidy”

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#446

Post by pton_xd »

abyssin wrote: post #47
wg0 wrote: post #13

If you have not tried DeepdeekV4 you're missing out. The pricing makes it unbelievably good. The chains of thought for Deepseek are very very interesting reads. Open code won't show them but do read them and you'll be surprised at how underrated the model is. My model usage is very low but I still do pay directly to Deepseek regularly as my tribute and contribution to them open sourcing their models as my gratitude a…

It’s good and cheap, but don’t talk about politics to it or it might trigger some sort of censorship rule. You can see it think, then suddenly erase everything and suggest to switch to another subject, without explaining anything. I also had it output some sort of generic message about how the news outlets are in the service of the people. Both times I was surprised because I didn’t make any sensitive requests, neith…

How is the censorship when asking for "dangerous" actions like writing a port scanner?

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#447

Post by FpUser »

fridder wrote: post #360
toddmorey wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like the US for years has operated under the assumption that homeostasis for the global economy would always be “designed in California, assembled in China.” Like there was something in the American DNA that was lacking in China and innovation would always need to happen here. But China it seems doesn’t need the US to produce great cars, devices, robotics, or AI. We absolutely need China to help us build all…

Might be more far to say: they needed the US until they caught up. The massive straight up IP theft helps a lot here. Though theft might be too strong since a lot of companies knew what they were getting in to

>"IP theft"

Can we stop this crying baby already. Every country has stolen from the other. Did you really expect countries to settle on sewing closes and ship all profits to foreign companies for eternity? The IP is just an artificial concept that participants follow for so long as it benefits all parties.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#448

Post by gmerc »

swasheck wrote: post #421
fridder wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be more far to say: they needed the US until they caught up. The massive straight up IP theft helps a lot here. Though theft might be too strong since a lot of companies knew what they were getting in to

IP theft may only be part of the story though. it’s a question of priorities. US optimizes for profit which can place limits reinvestment. China seems to optimize for ubiquity and dominance, and has the capital to throw at those goals. when you’re beholden to the shareholder/ceo/investor, you make concessions to stay within their will. when you’re beholden to the state, you do the same.

Talking about IP theft with a straight face in context of AI. lol. Not that kind of IP theft, that doesn’t count.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#449

Post by gmerc »

revolvingthrow wrote: post #288

Amusing that just when the big three AI providers from US raise prices significantly, even for the mini models, you’ve got a Chinese model slashing their already-cheap offer by 75%. Not to mention you can run this model on your own hardware, although admittedly even the flash stretches the meaning of local for individual people.

IPO metrics juicing is a bitch

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#450

Post by h8hawk »

belinder wrote: post #7

Anyone using deepseek through a gateway (not sure if right term) so there's no data retention? At work we're going through a few hundred million tokens a day in our app (using anthropic models), and we're looking for something significantly cheaper

Deepinfra, Take a look at providers, there is special mark for Data Retention for each provider: https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-pro
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