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Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

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Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#441

Post by cloudfudge »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #290
cloudfudge wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The consequence of saying they cannot choice to not have them. Is saying your requiring them to have them whether or not the people their want them. Sorry, but this is nonsense. They are currently not banned in Maine, yet they do not have them. There is obviously no requirement to have them.

Being against a ban is equivalent to requiring that something be allowed. It might or might not end up happening, but either way it is permitted.

"Requiring something be allowed" != "requiring them to have them"

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#442

Post by mrguyorama »

beastman82 wrote: post #76
slabity wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many local jobs. The factories in Maine employ thousands of people. Bath Iron Works alone has over 7k employees. The Lewiston datacenter that was planned to be built was expected to employ less than 30.

I'm guessing the population of Lewiston would welcome an employer of 30 jobs

The three weed stores that opened up in the past week employs more people than that and produces more tax revenue.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#443

Post by culi »

pj_mukh wrote: post #396
throwaway-11-1 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Yimby’s actually believe in democracy or that markets should basically make every decision? Honestly starting to get a little suspicious.

If the whole voting population came together and said we’d like to pay ourselves $100,000 in straight cash today by borrowing it from future generations. Should they be able to do it in the name of direct democracy? Blocking all future growth due to aesthetic reasons is 10x worse, atleast the $100,000 could be meaningfully spent now.

This is the exact opposite of that though. This is people coming together and saying "lets put a temporary pause on new infrastructure until the research/science catches up so we make sure we don't screw things up for future generations". It's people prioritizing long term stable and healthy growth over short term profits and hype cycles

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#444

Post by culi »

alex43578 wrote: post #405
culi wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is far from a blanket ban.

It’s a ban on any DC over 20 megawatts, regardless of site or situation - that’s a blanket ban because there’s no exceptions or justifications for the ban to apply to every large DC, regardless of location. From what I can tell, case law on takings via this kind of regulation is “case by case”, without a clear test for when it crosses over the line into an unreasonable imposition on property rights.

It's a pause. And not a particularly long one either.

Maine is saying "we don't have the legal infrastructure to make sure we can build these out in a way that protects the environment and our residents so let's put a pause on building while we build up that framework"

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#445

Post by culi »

tt24 wrote: post #390
culi wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maine is saying "hey give us until 2027 to research this and provide a good regulatory framework for massive data centers that don't impede on human rights to clean water and air". The moratorium expires after 2027. What human right is being violated here? Would you also say the requirement to get a driver's license is a violation of a human right?

"We need to put a """temporary""" moratorium to infringe on your right to $thing until we figure out what the hell is going on" No thanks

Some people are addicted to the taste of boots. In most of the US, small cities are being bullied around by huge tech firms that have taken over their political infrastructure and bought out their politicians. The people of Maine are sticking up to bid-rigging, bribery, and political collusion. More power to them

They're not even the first. Kentucky is facing fallout from uncovered collusion between local officials and developers (Western Hospitality Partners) to advance a data center project and they've also had to place a moratorium.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#446

Post by dymk »

rockemsockem wrote: post #320
dymk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like how demand for RAM and hard drives drove prices of those down, because of all that greater investment, right?

Yes. Are you actually being serious? Look at the last 60 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing_scandal

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#447

Post by pj_mukh »

culi wrote: post #443
pj_mukh wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the whole voting population came together and said we’d like to pay ourselves $100,000 in straight cash today by borrowing it from future generations. Should they be able to do it in the name of direct democracy? Blocking all future growth due to aesthetic reasons is 10x worse, atleast the $100,000 could be meaningfully spent now.

This is the exact opposite of that though. This is people coming together and saying "lets put a temporary pause on new infrastructure until the research/science catches up so we make sure we don't screw things up for future generations". It's people prioritizing long term stable and healthy growth over short term profits and hype cycles

No NIMBY ever says “let’s just ban this!”, they always say “we need to study the issue more”. Almost always.

The science of hosting rack GPU servers in the middle of is unknown? Are you listening to yourself? Power and water usage is extremely well known. This isn’t a Nuclear Fusion site.

This is exactly what I mean though, if you can just keep claiming everything is an unknown you can successfully do nothing ever. The NIMBY mantra.

Spare me with the “temporary”, nobody will ever find the political will to actually approve data centers in Maine for the next quarter century, I can guarantee it.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#448

Post by bigfatkitten »

toast0 wrote: post #403
xphos wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local municipalities collect this and often get tricked into not collecting it via agreements to host it in or near their town for multiple year agreements. Also the assessed value of the property may not come anywhere near the costs of increased electricity demand, water usage and noise pollution problems. For locals Their is typically high paying jobs in factories but these places dont employ a large staff beyond c…

Property tax is often assessed on capital equipment owned by a business as well as real estate. So while the real estate may be of limited value, the hosted machines could drive significant tax revenue as AI machines are spendy. You're right though, that municipalities often waive taxes to woo big projects.

Outside of colo facilities in metro areas, minimising property tax is always a key consideration in choosing a location.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#449

Post by [deleted] »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #420
culi wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the EPA is "a council of elders"? C'mon. Be reasonable for a second. Or at the very least actually read past the title before commenting. This is actively seeking to reduce NIMBYism > As part of the moratorium, Maine’s Data Center Coordination Council would study and oversee the environmental impact and electricity bill increases datacenters often bring to local residents and “consider data-sharing requi…

> Do you think the EPA is "a council of elders"? Yes

[deleted]

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#450

Post by culi »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #420
culi wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the EPA is "a council of elders"? C'mon. Be reasonable for a second. Or at the very least actually read past the title before commenting. This is actively seeking to reduce NIMBYism > As part of the moratorium, Maine’s Data Center Coordination Council would study and oversee the environmental impact and electricity bill increases datacenters often bring to local residents and “consider data-sharing requi…

> Do you think the EPA is "a council of elders"? Yes

What about the Department of Energy or Department of Education or Department of Commerce? Why not just do away with government in general. Let corporations do what they want
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