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Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

gitlab.redox-os.org

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Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#441

Post by kuschku »

khalic wrote: post #431
kuschku wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to go through all the dependencies anyway, to roughly judge their quality, and the activity of their maintainers. Quickly looking at the license doesn't take any more effort.

Totally realistic expectation

Considering you have to list all used open source software, their authors, and their licenses in your UI anyway, sure.

Or how are you handling that?

Sure, sometimes you can automate some of it, but you'll still have to manually check the attributions are correctly done.

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#442

Post by kuschku »

orf wrote: post #435
kuschku wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is fraudulently claiming your code has a different author & copyright (you) than it actually has (whether that's someone else's code, or LLM-generated code).

[flagged]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#443

Post by orf »

kuschku wrote: post #440
orf wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At that point you've proven intention, meaning you'll get the chance to argue your viewpoint in front of a judge. Sure, put out an international search warrant for xXImADogOnTheInternet86Xx.

Please stop embarrassing yourself, that's unnecessary. Many major projects now require a signed DCO with a real name. That can be a nickname if you have a reasonable online presence under that name, but generally it has to identify you as an individual. So you wouldn't sign it as "xXImADogOnTheInternet86Xx", but as "Tom Forbes (orf)". And even if there won't be direct legal consequences, it'd certainly affect your ab…

I’m really struggling to understand why you think any of this means anything?

Why would I sign it as my real name? Does the DCO require ID verification? No? So it would be “Mr Ima Dog”.

People can lie in the internet, saying “oh but no they can’t because there’s a form they need to fill in!!” is supremely off topic nonsense.

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#444

Post by hparadiz »

rswail wrote: post #421
hparadiz wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may as well be the MPAA right now throwing threats around sharing MP3s. We're past the point of caring and the laws will catch up with reality eventually. The US copyright office says things that get turned over in court all the time.

lol, ask the software industry whether or not their "past the point of caring" about the licenses on their software. Whether it's an OSS license or a commercial license, both are dependent on copyright as the underlying IP Right. The courts have so far (in the US) agreed with the Copyright office's reasoning. Use an LLM as a tool, mostly OK. Use it to create source from scratch, no copyright as the author isn't human…

The entire industry is right now encouraging LLM use all day everyday at big corps including mine. If your argument is the code we are producing isn't copyright of our employers you won't get very far. Call it the realpolitik of tech if you want.

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#445

Post by notpachet »

est31 wrote: post #403
notpachet wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Claude and GPT regularly write programs that are way better than what I would’ve written Is that really true? Like, if you took the time to plan it carefully, dot every i, cross every t? The way I think of LLM's is as "median targeters" -- they reliably produce output at the centre of the bell curve from their training set. So if you're working in a language that you're unfamiliar with -- let's say I wanted to make…

Have you tried the latest models at best settings? I've been writing software for 20 years. Rust since 10 years. I don't consider myself to be a median coder, but quite above average. Since the last 2 years or so, I've been trying out changes with AI models every couple months or so, and they have been consistently disappointing. Sure, upon edits and many prompts I could get something useful out of it but often I wou…

I feel like we're talking about different things. You seem to be describing a mode of working that produces output that's good enough to warrant the token cost. That's fine, and I have use cases where I do the same. My gripe was with the parent poster's quote:

> Claude and GPT regularly write programs that are way better than what I would’ve written

What you're describing doesn't sound "way better" than what you would have written by hand, except possibly in terms of the speed that it was written.

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#446

Post by orf »

kuschku wrote: post #442
orf wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35

I couldn’t find anything when I searched for “UK police task force tasked with ensuring people don’t lie on GitHub” could you help me with that thanks

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#448

Post by jacquesm »

orf wrote: post #443
kuschku wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop embarrassing yourself, that's unnecessary. Many major projects now require a signed DCO with a real name. That can be a nickname if you have a reasonable online presence under that name, but generally it has to identify you as an individual. So you wouldn't sign it as "xXImADogOnTheInternet86Xx", but as "Tom Forbes (orf)". And even if there won't be direct legal consequences, it'd certainly affect your ab…

I’m really struggling to understand why you think any of this means anything? Why would I sign it as my real name? Does the DCO require ID verification? No? So it would be “Mr Ima Dog”. People can lie in the internet, saying “oh but no they can’t because there’s a form they need to fill in!!” is supremely off topic nonsense.

I'm really struggling to understand why you would burn down a decade+ old reputation over this particular issue. Is this really the hill you wanted to die on?

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#449

Post by orf »

jacquesm wrote: post #448
orf wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really struggling to understand why you think any of this means anything? Why would I sign it as my real name? Does the DCO require ID verification? No? So it would be “Mr Ima Dog”. People can lie in the internet, saying “oh but no they can’t because there’s a form they need to fill in!!” is supremely off topic nonsense.

I'm really struggling to understand why you would burn down a decade+ old reputation over this particular issue. Is this really the hill you wanted to die on?

It’s an abstract argument with one pretty clear point that you can’t seem to grasp: people lie, on the internet, all the time. Any system, policy or discussion that pretends this isn’t the case is worthless.

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#450

Post by jacquesm »

coderenegade wrote: post #402
short_sells_poo wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a human to be able to do any customization, they have to dive into the code and work with it, understand it, gain intuition for it. Engage with the maintainers and community. In the process, there's a good chance that they'll be encouraged to contribute improvements upstream even if they have their own fork. Vibe coders don't have to do any of this. They don't have to understand anything, they can just have their…

I think that in the long run, AI assisted coding will turn out to be better than handcrafted code. When you pay for every token, and code generation is quick, a clean, low entropy codebase with good test coverage gets you a lot more for your dollar than a dog's breakfast. It's also much easier to fix bad decisions made early on in a project's life, because the machine is doing all of the heavy lifting. This also line…

You mean like I have to pay my compiler to turn high level code into low level code?
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