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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#441

Post by Defenestresque »

Acinyx wrote: post #415
tavavex wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird, my opinion is the exact opposite from yours, but for the same reasons. When it's the morning, I haven't had the time to get tired yet. So I don't care yet, I don't require the sunlight at that time of the day. And it's always a better feeling when there's only a bit of darkness left before sunrise, when the alternative is feeling like the day was wasted as you step outside and it's already night out. Depe…

Same here at 52 degrees, the evenings feel so much more useful when the sun is out than in winter when it is dark, an hour extra sun would be massive. So I am wondering what the percentages for these preferences are, is t 50-50 split or is one dominant? You'll piss off part of the population any chocie you make nayway, but at least in the European (non-representative) polls they found 80% don't want the twice-yearly…

According to the article at least, it's 93% pro/7% against in BC, though I haven't had a chance to look up how the question was phrased or n.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#442

Post by Fargren »

indecisive_user wrote: post #324
throw0101c wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European Biological Rhythms Society (EBRS), European Sleep Research Society (ESRS), and Society for Research on Biological Rhythms (SRBR) put out a joint statement that recommends all-year Standard Time in the EU: * https://esrs.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/To_the_EU_Commiss... I would hazard to guess some of those folks have looked at data for northern Europe and took it into account when forming their conclusi…

I think you're missing the parent's point. Cities in northern Europe, like Stockholm and Oslo, already have sunrise times as late or later than Vancouver will have under permanent DST. If the effects of shifting the clock an hour are as extreme as purported, then we should already see those negative health effects in populations that live their entire lives under those conditions, but we don't.

Do we know that we don't see adverse health effects on those populations? I couldn't find any studies on the subject. I think it would be very hard to measure, since you can't really compare without comparing populations of different countries, and at that point any effects can be attributed to a myriad of differences between countries.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#443

Post by TheCapeGreek »

derektank wrote: post #368
ako wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on your interests: I use daylight for sports after work, really like being able to surf until 22:30 midsummer (52 degrees), so DST works for me. On the other hand, also don't mind the switching between wintertime and summertime, it's just like a minor jetlag we all have no problem with when going on holiday.

>it's just like a minor jetlag we all have no problem with when going on holiday. I can only say speak for yourself, some of us have major problems with jet lag. Especially as someone on the west coast, I am exhausted any time I have to travel east for work

East-West in US is a lot different to a 1 hour shift. Hence minor jetlag.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#444

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

armedpacifist wrote: post #386
pkulak wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what everyone says. But it turns out people hate spending their morning in darkness for more light at night. Which makes perfect sense: https://washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-... > the inkling of light they get during their winter commute It's not an inkling. Unless you roll out of bed and instantly onto your commute, you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every…

fwiw, getting sunlight from behind a modern window is almost the same as getting it from a led or lightbulb, vastly insufficient. The glass filters out the specific frequencies that are most beneficial to us. You need to get out...

And that's true even if you are sleeping with all your curtains wide open...

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#445

Post by vhodges »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

It's purely personal, but my body really seems to prefer daylight savings. I always have very rough and fluctuating sleep schedules during the winter. They seem to go away after the spring ahead (it could just be the longer daylight hours that become more apparent during spring). Greetings from Mission!

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#446

Post by Wowfunhappy »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #301
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In June, they wouldn't. That's why we currently change the clocks. But changing the clocks sucks, so you have to optimize for either the winter or the summer. In the summer, we already have lots of sunlight regardless, so it doesn't make sense to optimize for that.

Winter sucks anyways when you live in the north. I grew up at 56 degrees north and you are cooked no matter what is done. Better to optimize April-October.

In summer when there's lots of sunlight, the benefit of an extra hour--while not zero--isn't that significant.

We tried permanent DST in the US in the 1970s. People hated it.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#447

Post by Wowfunhappy »

vhodges wrote: post #445
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

It's purely personal, but my body really seems to prefer daylight savings. I always have very rough and fluctuating sleep schedules during the winter. They seem to go away after the spring ahead (it could just be the longer daylight hours that become more apparent during spring). Greetings from Mission!

Yeah, I would argue strongly it's just because you have more sunlight during daylight savings. Having the sun rise later in winter would just make your sleep worse.

If you wanted to test this, try setting your alarm one hour earlier for a few weeks in winter and see if it makes you feel better.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#448

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ikr678 wrote: post #252
bena wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we care about the kids. It's not about whether or not the kids are having a good time, but whether or not groggy people on their way to work can see them.

Would the better thing to do be to vary school hours by season? Add an hour in summer and remove an hour in winter?.

This is basically what Daylight Savings Time does.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#449

Post by jasonkester »

Asmod4n wrote: post #439
jasonkester wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people generally go on hikes after work? Yes. Of course. That’s the whole point of shifting the daylight hours. You get off work and head to the crag to climb a few routes before it gets dark. It’s like a little mini weekend every evening for those summer months. But yeah, if you never take advantage of that, it’s understandable to want some light in the morning I guess. But yikes, why not go out and enjoy the sun…

So you get the sunlight when you are about to go to sleep and none when you wake up. That doesn’t sound healthy.

Exercising in the sun for 3 or 4 hours a day doesn’t sound healthy? Compared to the guy who planned to spend that time in the pub?

If that means that bedtime falls within 3 hours of the sunset then so be it. I’ve survived this long at least.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#450

Post by roysting »

vhodges wrote: post #445
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

It's purely personal, but my body really seems to prefer daylight savings. I always have very rough and fluctuating sleep schedules during the winter. They seem to go away after the spring ahead (it could just be the longer daylight hours that become more apparent during spring). Greetings from Mission!

I would prefer you simply adjust your personal schedule (yes, it’s far more likely the shorter daylight and probably insufficient Vitamin D) than that we permanently turn the one hour offset from high noon of the sun…the very basis for time itself coupled to the natural phenomenon of earth’s rotation … into the standard now.

“Daddy, why is the sun at its highest point at 1300 and not noon like since the beginning of time?” … “because right before humans destroyed themselves they became idiots and lost their mind and started being confused about their genitals, time itself, whether they should be alive or not, and even tried convincing themselves that the Big Arch burger was not disgusting food-product slop; that’s why, my AI robot son, that’s why!”

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