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Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

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Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#441

Post by impossiblefork »

csmpltn wrote: post #130
1a527dd5 wrote: post #86

I wonder how old the rest of the commentators are. I watched the Shock and Awe campaign. I watched Saddam fall. I remember thinking this is great. Years later, I understand it was a complete folly. Removing Saddam in itself was good but what it did the wider region was not good.

You seriously don’t think Iraq is in a better place today than it has ever been? You miss Saddam?

When Saddam Hussein was removed, the result was that basically all Iraqi Christians who hadn't fled were murdered. There are probably as many Iraqi Christians in the EU as there are in Iraq now.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#442

Post by exe34 »

ant6n wrote: post #424
lamontcg wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been a regime which has collapsed due to an external strike like this where it hasn't resulted in some decades long civil war nightmare? I can't think of any time when bombing the shit out of a country and killing their leader has actually worked. All I can think of is examples of blowback.

The canonical example is WWii Germany. Denazification actually sort of worked. But it required a lot of effort, resources and special circumstances.

they brought the Nazis to the US and now hydra has taken over.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#444

Post by sph »

penguin_booze wrote: post #416
thomassmith65 wrote: post #12

The Iranian diaspora around the world is celebrating. Here's the scene in Berlin: https://youtu.be/NSbx_0mtk80?si=MJ_Bfvx8gVd1P1mm They've waited a very long time for this moment!

Do enjoy the moment while it lasts. Because the next ruler will be an American stooge. This isn't going anywhere, like the other "revolutions" in the middle east.

Henry Kissinger is looking up and smiling.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#445

Post by tdeck »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #256
dfadsadsf wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq right now is in roughly the same position as it was when Saddam Hussein was there but in the meantime a few million people died and the country went through a pretty traumatic period.

lol lmao is the civilian population being gassed in Iraq now? how about a brutal repressive regime backed by a secret police that tortured and disappeared thousands? is Iraq really the same as it was under Saddam?!!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Unfortunately the current Iraqi government has a record of torturing people too. You just don't hear about it ever because they're a US client state.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/10/iraq-people-h...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/08/19/iraq-chilling-accounts-t...

There was a This American Life story about it which unfortunately I can't find.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#446

Post by bonzini »

oytis wrote: post #89
kubb wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no doubt that they didn't like that the regime, which is why they left. But this assassination is no guarantee of change for the better. Far from it.

It's not a given - e.g. AFAIK most turks in Germany support Erdogan

A lot of the Persian diaspora is actually descendents of people who left in the 80s. There are certainly people who left 20 years ago or less but they're mostly secular as well.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#447

Post by oa335 »

flyinglizard wrote: post #126
gip wrote: post #92

[flagged]

In hindsight, from the perspective of the Middle East and Arab world in general: Obama’s tenure was a geopolitical nightmare, while under Trump’s first presidency the Middle East made a big step forward with the Abraham Accords.

> In hindsight, from the perspective of the Middle East and Arab world in general

Do you live there?

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#448

Post by gus_massa »

cosmicgadget wrote: post #260
dotancohen wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the stated reason why the United States has an impeachment process. So that they have a process for removing undesirable heads of state without resorting to assassination.

True but other countries don't have an equivalent process.

Most have, but the decition is made by the local politicians instead of foreing nuclear powers. It's actually very similar to the impeachment.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#449

Post by twocommits »

p2detar wrote: post #382
mango7283 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Americans had to occupy and place both Japan and West Germany under their military rule afterwards to make it stick, that's not a comparison

I disagree. After the bombing, the Emperor himself broadcasted a surrender message [0] to the people of Japan. The occupation was also for more lighter than in Germany. Japan had full control of its administration and its government continued to operate. In that context whether we like or not, it very much worked. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito_surrender_broadcast

[flagged]

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#450

Post by ahartmetz »

oytis wrote: post #89
kubb wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no doubt that they didn't like that the regime, which is why they left. But this assassination is no guarantee of change for the better. Far from it.

It's not a given - e.g. AFAIK most turks in Germany support Erdogan

In both countries, the educated population likes the religious leader less than the uneducated population. In Germany, most Turkish immigrants are from rather basic backgrounds and most Iranian immigrants are from intellectual backgrounds. It makes a huge difference. In both countries of origin, the population is split much more evenly than what you see abroad. AFAIK, about 50% support the religious strongman in both countries.
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