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The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

cnn.com

441–450 of 1001 posts

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#441

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

People still believe October 7th attacks weren't intentionally allowed? There is a lot of legitimate debate on this topic as the security failures are unusual and are still officially being discussed in Israel.

If that was an attitude of Israel towards its people they wouldn't go to such length to return the hostages home.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#442

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

>I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror. If October 7th is an "insane horror", what words will suffice to describe the decades of far worse crimes committed by Israel? Considering the scale of suffering caused by this conflict, October 7th was just a small blip.

While I agree, and I find that Israel is on the wrong side of history, I'm not entirely into seeing this whole matter as black and white.

I have the opinion that modern world history is mostly shaped around each countries/population traumas that echo through society till today.

E.g. the biggest trauma of Ukrainians aren't even the events that are playing recently, but the Holodomor that happened 100 years ago. On the other hand the biggest trauma on Russian side is still the German invasion and war of annihilation happened during the second world war. As both sides see themselves as the victims and see the other side as the aggressor (or collaborator) and none has ever taken a step back to recognize their actions, they simply cannot communicate.

The biggest trauma of China is the century of humiliation where western powers and Japan went above and beyond any decency in their actions. Thus, Chinese society and leadership is all about never being dictated conditions and terms by foreign powers. They see themselves as victims of events that they don't want to see ever again.

The jewish Israeli population biggest trauma are centuries if not millenia of animosity, racism and violence coming from any side, last but definitely not least the Holocaust. Thus Israel is all about security at all costs, even if it means bending any sign of human decency. Again, they see themselves as victims and their actions will always go in that direction.

Sadly many parts of the world, many countries, many societies, are simply too scarred and unable to take a step back from the victim mentality and recognize their own actions.

Israelis are unable to recognize they are Goliath and not David from the longest time, they are unable and unwilling to say sorry, the last Israeli leader that tried, got assassinated by one of his own.

The arabic/muslim population in the area too see themselves as victims of the post world war 2 events, and they are as well unable to recognize how scarred and traumatized is Israeli society from centuries of events, including modern ones where they had to survive against hostile Arab coalitions aimed to annihilate them.

So, without a generation of leaders able to recognize and understand the role of history and those traumas and empathize with the other sides we're trapped in those loops of aggression.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#444

The take home message from this is that the only way for any country to be secure is to have nuclear weapons.

"In the world of strategic studies, there has been a return to ‘theories of [nuclear] victory’. Their proponents draw on the work of past scholars such as Henry Kissinger, who wondered in his 1957 book Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy if extending the American deterrent to all of Europe at a time when the threat of total destruction hung over the US itself would actually work: ‘A reliance on all-out war as the chief deterrent saps our system of alliances in two ways: either our allies feel that any military effort on their part is unnecessary or they may be led to the conviction that peace is preferable to war even on terms almost akin to surrender ... As the implication of all-out war with modern weapons become better understood ... it is not reasonable to assume that the United Kingdom, and even more the United States, would be prepared to commit suicide in order to defend a particular area ... whatever its importance, to an enemy’.

One of the recommended solutions was to bring tactical nuclear weapons back into the dialectic of deterrence extended to allied territories, so as to give US decision makers a range of options between Armageddon and defeat without a war. Global deterrence was ‘restored’ by creating additional rungs on the ladder of escalation, which were supposed to enable a sub-apocalyptic deterrence dialogue — before one major adversary or the other felt its key interests were threatened and resorted to extreme measures. Many theorists in the 1970s took this logic further, in particular Colin Gray in a 1979 article, now back in fashion, titled ‘Nuclear Strategy: the case for a theory of victory’.

...

In 2018 Admiral Pierre Vandier, now chief of staff of the French navy, offered a precise definition of this shift to the new strategic era, which has begun with Russia’s invasion: ‘A number of indicators suggest that we are entering a new era, a Third Nuclear Age, following the first, defined by mutual deterrence between the two superpowers, and the second, which raised hopes of a total and definitive elimination of nuclear weapons after the cold war’" [1].

I think the chances we see a tactial nuclear exchange in our lifetimes has gone from distant to almost certain.

[1] https://mondediplo.com/2022/04/03nuclear

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#445

Ben Franklin was asked what kind of govt would the newly formed United States have. He was sadly right when he replied 'A republic, if you can keep it' One of the (many) pretexts for the war, at least from Trump seems to be that Iran 'interfered' in US elections. From the Washington post 'President Donald Trump shared an article about Iran seeking to interfere in U.S. elections on his Truth Social account a couple of…

/sought/ to interfere.

See Stephen Fry on attempted chemistry.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#447

The take home message from this is that the only way for any country to be secure is to have nuclear weapons.

Israel has a lot of nukes (while they pretend they don't) and that does not prevent them from being attacked.

It probably prevents armed warships from attacking them. It doesn't, as you correctly point out, prevent guerilla warfare.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#448
post #110

There seems to be an uptick around 1am on Polymarket. https://polymarket.com/event/us-strikes-iran-by

There is a huge flame war in the comments as people who had money on 27th Feb are claiming the attack started on that date

I think they don’t have an argument because technically the missile can be de-activated up until the last seconds before it reaches its intended target

Still it feels surreal to argue about these things , bomb dropping on humans and other humans attacking each other for the privilege to have their bet honored on when said bombs dropped on the other side of the world

I guess people in intelligence communities had these sort of bets going on ever since WW2 and Vietnam , but still it’s uncanny to see it widespread to potentially the whole population of the internet

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#449

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

People still believe October 7th attacks weren't intentionally allowed? There is a lot of legitimate debate on this topic as the security failures are unusual and are still officially being discussed in Israel.

It's a well documented fact that Netanyahu has always wanted and actively supported Hamas leadership in order to have no reasons to sit at the table of with the PLA.

When the other side is led by what you can easily sell to the world as terrorists, you're by default the good guys.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#450

The take home message from this is that the only way for any country to be secure is to have nuclear weapons.

Israel has a lot of nukes (while they pretend they don't) and that does not prevent them from being attacked.

Thanks for pointing this out. I hear people say this over and over, if Iran only had nukes it would be safe to continue propagating terrorism as it has been doing. It’s obviously wrong, as you point out. Russia has nukes. India has nukes. Having nuclear weapons doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want, if anything it brings a higher level of scrutiny. A nuclear Iran would be a serious problem for many and that’s why it’s so critical to make sure that doesn’t happen, not just for Israel but the entire planet.
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