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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#441

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misja111 wrote: post #431
jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

> People seem to think only money has value. Your either don't understand or don't want to understand what people are commenting about here. Of course nobody thinks that only money has value. If only money had value, why would anybody exchange money for, say, a bread? What many people are wondering about, is whether the value of the money paid by tax payers to artists, equals the value of what they give to the tax pa…

There are many things that are valuable to people, but which they would rather not pay for. They include public goods and externalities, like infrastructure and education and a reasonable amount of military. It makes a lot of sense that people would rather enjoy art for free if they had the option, and since the majority of art experience can be easily duplicated and transmitted, why pay for it yourself? There is also another benefit of art stimulating further intellectual and creative development of a society, perhaps yielding second order benefits that are hard to quantify. Thus overall, it can make a lot of sense for government to pay for art as a society.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#442

Post by lbreakjai »

padjo wrote: post #286
tomcam wrote: post #144

I don’t get it. Why are artists more deserving than unemployed insurance salespeople or carpet installers?

A single well made piece of art can have a profound impact on society for generations. A well laid carpet is... Just a well laid carpet.

None of these 2000 artists will create anything close to a single piece of art having any sort of effect on society. I can guarantee it.

I worked in "culture" for a while when I was younger. 90% of it is just disguised unemployment benefits for those that consider it a dirty word barely good enough for the hoi polloi.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#443

Post by maccard »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #367
jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

When Nirvana first moved from their small Washington town to Seattle, they were able to pay their rent + everything else from working minimum wage jobs for 2 weeks a month. They had time to practice music and pursue their art. In an era where working a full time job is not enough to pay the cost of living, arts and culture no longer exist except as hobbies for rich kids. Seattle successfully exterminated their entire…

I live in a fairly expensive city in the UK. Working minimum wage for 2 weeks will pay for a room in a flat share, plus my households food and required bills.

It’s not much of a life but the same still stands in many cities.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#444

Post by jcarrano »

"If you need subsidies in order to live off art, you don't live off art but live off the state".

As part time artist I see many problems with these schemes:

- Decoupled from people's actual appreciation of the art being done: I feel better when I know people voluntarily gave up their hard-earned money for what I do. - Monopoly-style "winner takes all". The people who benefit from this are the ones already in a position to ask for the benefit. - No one bites the hand that feeds then. That will form a body of "artists" subservient to the state.

The human problem is that no artist is willing to acknowledge that the public is not willing to spend money on their product.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#445

Post by baseballdork »

its_magic wrote: post #237
baseballdork wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's about your viewpoint on taxation and how it's a pointless task to try and reason with a person that takes that stance. "Respecting the lives of others" doesn't preclude taxation to any rational person.

[flagged]

You’re proving the point. None of this is rational discourse. “you’re a criminal”, “ you’re a slave”, “you’re a crab”.

We get it, you don’t like paying taxes.

> The only purpose of your meager existence is to make your owners more wealthy and powerful.

Are these the wealthy and powerful pot smokers you’re talking about?

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#446

Post by danlitt »

_heimdall wrote: post #383
danlitt wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument has a lot of holes in it. Notably, > Planned economies have historically failed. Very much false - the US war and post-war economy was very heavily planned, and was perhaps the most successful economy in history (precisely until it was gutted in the 70s/80s). > best case scenario, create a proportional inflation You give no reason to expect that this inflation will at best be proportional. It is perfect…

Price inflation isn't the only type of inflation. Monetary inflation was historically the "inflation" people focused on, and given that Ireland runs a deficit in their state budget this would be adding to the debt and inflating the money supply.

> given that Ireland runs a deficit in their state budget

is this true? Last I heard Ireland ran a surplus for the last 5 years or so.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#447

Post by instig007 »

jimnotgym wrote: post #394
BSDobelix wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Go Ireland, great scheme. I wish we had it over here in the UK. It's a bad scheme, it divide's your population into people who have to create "wealth", and people who create "art". Yes creating art (or preserving rare potatoes[1]) should be supported by your government if it's not survivable in a capitalistic society, however having different rights because of your occupation is not better then the middle ages. [1]…

Or it divides them into people that create cultural wealth and people who create mere monetary wealth. So you do agree that art should be supported by government I see, so how would you do it?

> create cultural wealth and people who create mere monetary wealth

the wealth in this case isn't monetary, it's material production, the productive work of people who create material objects, including your food and shelter. If it was about monetary stuff the government would just print the artists whatever amount of money they need. But that money has to be spent to buy from those who produce the stuff the artists need to live. Who's sponsoring the wealth producers?

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#448

Post by christkv »

jcarrano wrote: post #444

"If you need subsidies in order to live off art, you don't live off art but live off the state". As part time artist I see many problems with these schemes: - Decoupled from people's actual appreciation of the art being done: I feel better when I know people voluntarily gave up their hard-earned money for what I do. - Monopoly-style "winner takes all". The people who benefit from this are the ones already in a positi…

Thats whats happened in Norway, and even worse they gave the artists the decision making process of handing out grants leading to them self dealing or dealing to their friends.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#449

Post by JKCalhoun »

jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

Plenty of people get upset if they think there is someone, somewhere getting a "handout".

It's easy to channel indignation toward those people and not, say, their corporate masters that seem to hold everyone's strings.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#450

Post by whywhywhywhy »

jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

Why would I ever do work if I can just do art? I mean I have worked in the creative industries so I have successfully done art for others but why would I do art to serve others if I can just do what I want and live comfortably.

Or is it more of have to apply to be subsidized and the government chooses what art is worth subsidizing, which won’t result in good art, more just government building lobby bad art.

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