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The Waymo World Model

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Re: The Waymo World Model

#441

Post by servo_sausage »

raincole wrote: post #399
servo_sausage wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trains need well behaved people, otherwise they are shit. I don't want to hear tiktok or full volume soap operas blasting at some deaf mouth breather. I don't want to be near loud chewing of smelly leftovers. I don't want to be begged for money, or interact with high or psychotic people. The current culture doesn't allow enforcement of social behaviour: so public transport will always be a miserable containment vesse…

Roads (cars) need well behave people too. The only way cars filter some of the out is by the price.

Price helps a whole lot, I think more than you give it credit for. Driving is also an active thing, this also helps.

We also police driving behaviour, in a way that nobody does for public behaviour.

And no matter what I don't have to hear or smell other drivers.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#442

Post by monocasa »

jasondigitized wrote: post #344
smeeth wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always understood this to be why Tesla started working on humanoid robots

I don't want a humanoid robot. I want a purpose built robot.

I mean, I would take a robot to handle all of my housework.

Purpose built, that probably takes the form of a humanoid robot since all of tasks it needs to do were previously designed for humanoids.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#443

Post by bagels »

raphlinus wrote: post #272
AlfredBarnes wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has always felt to me that the LLM chatbots were a surprise to Google, not LLMs, or machine learning in general.

Not true at all. I interacted with Meena[1] while I was there, and the publication was almost three years before the release of ChatGPT. It was an unsettling experience, felt very science fiction. [1]: https://research.google/blog/towards-a-conversational-agent-...

ChatGPT really innovated on making the chat not say racist things that the press could report on. Other efforts before this failed for that reason.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#444

Post by [deleted] »

hosh wrote: post #302
brokencode wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a point in time when basically every well known AI researcher worked at Google. They have been at the forefront of AI research and investing heavily for longer than anybody. It’s kind of crazy that they have been slow to create real products and competitive large scale models from their research. But they are in full gear now that there is real competition, and it’ll be cool to see what they release over th…

I also think the presence of Sergey Brin has been making a difference in this.

[deleted]

Re: The Waymo World Model

#445

Post by scoofy »

GoatInGrey wrote: post #426
scoofy wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lighting money on fire by funding an extremely expensive system that most people don't want to use is not an "investment." It's just a good way to make everyone much poorer and worse off than if we'd done nothing. The only way to change things is to convince the electorate that we actually do need rules and enforcement and a sustainable transportation system . This isn't just happening in America. Train systems are i…

> most people don't want to use I'm not sure if this was intended or not, but this is a common NIMBY refrain. The argument of "This thing being advocated for that I'm fighting against isn't something people want anyway". And like walkable neighborhood architecture, extremely few Americans have access to light rail. Let alone light rail that doesn't have to yield to car traffic. Regardless, the cost arguments fall apa…

You seem to be misunderstanding my point. I am a transit alternatives advocate, and have been my entire adult life.

I'm NOT saying "people don't want to ride trains."

I AM saying "people don't want ride trains that allow 5% of the riders to smoke cigarettes on enclosed train platforms and in enclosed train cars."

You might says "what? but that's not happening."

In Chicago, yes it is: https://resphealth.org/snuff-out-smoking-on-cta/

People want transit as long as that transit reasonably meets their quality of life standards. The reason why automobiles have been so popular -- even while being wildly more expensive -- is exactly that they allow the user to adjust their travel to their optimal quality of life expectations.

Public transit advocates need to be honest with themselves that anti-social behavioral issues really matter to people. People are willing to pay more to have a more pleasant experience. When a transit system fails to meet that standard, then you'll suddenly find yourself with a transit system that people don't want to use.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#446

Post by xtracto »

mullingitover wrote: post #433
smallnix wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s kind of crazy that they have been slow to create real products and competitive large scale models from their research. I always thought they deliberately tried to contain the genie in the bottle as long as they could

Their unreleased LaMDA[1] famously caused one of their own engineers to have a public crashout in 2022, before ChatGPT dropped. Pre-ChatGPT they also showed it off in their research blog[2] and showed it doing very ChatGPT-like things and they alluded to 'risks,' but those were primarily around it using naughty language or spreading misinformation. I think they were worried that releasing a product like ChatGPT only…

Attention is all you need was written by Googlers IIRC.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#447

Post by mullingitover »

xtracto wrote: post #446
mullingitover wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their unreleased LaMDA[1] famously caused one of their own engineers to have a public crashout in 2022, before ChatGPT dropped. Pre-ChatGPT they also showed it off in their research blog[2] and showed it doing very ChatGPT-like things and they alluded to 'risks,' but those were primarily around it using naughty language or spreading misinformation. I think they were worried that releasing a product like ChatGPT only…

Attention is all you need was written by Googlers IIRC.

Indeed, none of the current AI boom would’ve happened without Google Brain and their failure to execute on their huge early lead. It’s basically a Xerox Parc do-over with ads instead of printers.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#448

Post by scoofy »

martinald wrote: post #381
scoofy wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives in the Bay Area we already have trains, and they're literally past the point of bankruptcy because they (1) don't actually charge enough maintain the variable cost of operations, (2) don't actually make people pay at all, and (3) don't actually enforce any quality of life concerns short of breaking up literal fights. All of this creates negative synergies that pushes a huge, mostly silent segment…

You're definitely right on (2) and (3). I've used many transit systems across the world (including TransMilenio in Bogota and other latam countries "renowned" for crime) and I have never felt as unsafe as I have using transit in the SFBA. Even standing at bus stops draws a lot of attention from people suffering with serious addiction/mental health problems. 1) is a bit simplistic though. I don't know of any European…

>The better way to look at it imo is looking at the economic loss as well of congestion/abandoned commutes. To do a ridiculous hypothetical, London would collapse entirely if it didn't have transit.

You're making my argument for me. Again, my concern isn't the day-to-day conveniences of funding, my point is that building a fragile system (a system where the funding is unrelated to the usability of the service) is a system that can fail catastrophically... for systems where there are obviously alternatives (say, National Rail which can be substituted for automobile, bus, and airplane service) are less to worry about, because their failure will likely not cause cascading failures. When an entire local economy is dependent on that system -- when there are not viable substitutes -- then you're really looking at a sudden economic collapse if the funding source runs dry, or if the system is ever mismanaged.

This is a big deal. When funding really actually does run out and the system fails, then if the result is an economic cascade into a full blown depression, then you would have been much better off just building the robust system in the long term. I just really don't think people appreciate how systems can just fail. Whether it's Detroit or Caracas, when the economic tides turn in a fragile system people can lose everything in a matter of a few years.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#450

Post by scoofy »

joshuamorton wrote: post #431
scoofy wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives in the Bay Area we already have trains, and they're literally past the point of bankruptcy because they (1) don't actually charge enough maintain the variable cost of operations, (2) don't actually make people pay at all, and (3) don't actually enforce any quality of life concerns short of breaking up literal fights. All of this creates negative synergies that pushes a huge, mostly silent segment…

It's worth noting that, at least for bart, the reason that it is facing bankruptcy is precisely because it was mostly rider supported and profitable, and not government supported. When ridership plummeted by >50% during the pandemic, fixed costs stayed the same, but income dropped. Last time I checked, if Bart ridership returned to 2019 levels, with no other changes, it would be profitable again.

You can't say that BART "is facing bankruptcy is precisely because it was mostly rider supported and profitable, and not government supported" when it is very obvious that BART would be in a much worse situation if it had had more government support... because all those governments are facing massive budget deficits right now.

BART has already been bailed out by the state, twice. It has already failed, twice. It very much needs to reduce the level service it provides if it wants to be sustainable, or seek other forms of revenues while we wait to see if ridership returns. Many have suggested BART explore the SE Asian model of generating revenues by developing residential housing, which seems fairly straightforward.

If ridership never returns, then we ought not continue throwing good money after bad, and we ought to adjust the level of service to meet the level of revenues. Obviously the main problem here is that it's literally illegal to just build high density corridors directly adjacent to the transit stations... which is what we ultimately need to prioritize.

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