Earlier quoted context omitted.
These models do well changing brownfield applications that have tests because the constraints on a successful implementation are tight. Their solutions can be automatically augmented by research and documentation.
I don't exactly disagree with this but I have seen models simply deleting the tests , or updating the tests to pass and declaring the failures were "unrelated to my changes", so it helpfully fixed them
A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
441–450 of 870 posts
Re: A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Eventually it was easier just to quit fighting it and let it do things the way it wanted. I wouldn't have believed it a few tears ago if you told me the industry would one day, in lockstep, decide that shipping more tech-debt is awesome. If the unstated bet doesn't pay off, that is, AI development will outpace the rate it generates cruft, then there will be hell to pay.
As someone who's been commissioned many times before to work on or salvage "rescue projects" with huge amounts of tech debt, I welcome that day. Still not there yet though I am starting to feel the vibes shifting. This isn't anything new of course. Previously it was with projects built by looking for the cheapest bidder and letting them loose on an ill-defined problem. And you can just imagine what kind of code that…
I used to be unconcerned, but I admit to be a little frightened of the future now.
Re: A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
#443> It's so interesting to watch an agent relentlessly work at something. They never get tired, they never get demoralized, they just keep going and trying things where a person would have given up long ago to fight another day. It's a "feel the AGI" moment to watch it struggle with something for a long time just to come out victorious 30 minutes later. Somewhere, there are GPUs/NPUs running hot. You send all the neces…
I still find in these instances there's at least a 50% chance it has taken a shortcut somewhere: created a new, bigger bug in something that just happened not to have a unit test covering it, or broke an "implicit" requirement that was so obvious to any reasonable human that nobody thought to document it. These can be subtle because you're not looking for them, because no human would ever think to do such a thing. Th…
Re: A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
#444I worry about the "brain atrophy" part, as I've felt this too. And not just atrophy, but even moreso I think it's evolving into "complacency". Like there have been multiple times now where I wanted the code to look a certain way, but it kept pulling back to the way it wanted to do things. Like if I had stated certain design goals recently it would adhere to them, but after a few iterations it would forget again and g…
I ran into a new problem today: "reading atrophy". As in if the LLM doesn't know about it, some devs are basically giving up and not even going to RTFM. I literally had to explain to someone today how something works by...reading through the docs and linking them the docs with screenshots and highlighted paragraphs of text. Still got push back along the lines of "not sure if this will work". It's. Literally. In. The.…
15 years ago I was working in an environment where they had lots of Indians as cheap labour - and the same thing will show up in any environment where you go for hiring a mass of cheap people while looking more at the cost than at qualifications: You pretty much need to trick them into reading stuff that are relevant.
I remember one case where one had a problem they couldn't solve, and couldn't give me enough info to help remotely. In the end I was sitting next to them, and made them read anything showing up on the screen out loud. Took a few tries where they were just closing dialog boxes without reading it, but eventually we had that under control enough that they were able to read the error messages to me, and then went "Oh, so _that's_ the problem?!"
Overall interacting with a LLM feels a lot like interacting with one of them back then, even down to the same excuses ("I didn't break anything in that commit, that test case was never passing") - and my expectation for what I can get out of it is pretty much the same as back then, and approach to interacting with it is pretty similar. It's pretty much an even cheaper unskilled developer, you just need to treat it as such. And you don't pair it up with other unskilled developers.
Re: A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
#445I'm pretty happy with Copilot in VS Code. Type what change I want Claude to make in the Copilot panel, and then use the VS Code in context diffs to accept or reject the proposed changes. While being able to make other small changes on my own. So I think this tracks with Karpathy's defense of IDEs still being necessary ? Has anyone found it practical to forgo IDEs almost entirely?
I've found copilot chat is able to do everything I need. I tried the Claude plugin for vscode and it was a noticeably worse experience for me. Mind you copilot has only supported agent mode relatively recently. I really like the way copilot does changes in such a way you can accept or reject and even revert to point in time in the chat history without using git. Something about this just fits right with how my brain…
Re: A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
#446Are game developers vibe coding with agents? It's such a visual and experiential thing that writing true success criteria it can iterate on seems like borderline impossible ahead of time.
Re: A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
#447Does anybody have any info on what he is actually working on besides all the vibe-coding tweets?
There seems to be zero output from they guy for the past 2 years (except tweets)
Re: A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
#448I worry about the "brain atrophy" part, as I've felt this too. And not just atrophy, but even moreso I think it's evolving into "complacency". Like there have been multiple times now where I wanted the code to look a certain way, but it kept pulling back to the way it wanted to do things. Like if I had stated certain design goals recently it would adhere to them, but after a few iterations it would forget again and g…
It's not just brain atrophy, I think. I think part of it is that we're actively making a tradeoff to focus on learning how to use the model rather than learning how to use our own brains and work with each other. This would be fine if not for one thing: the meta-skill of learning to use the LLM depreciates too. Today's LLM is gonna go away someday, the way you have to use it will change. You will be on a forever trea…
I agree with the sentiment but I would have framed it differently. The LLM is a tool, just like code completion or a code generator. Right now we focus mainly on how to use a tool, the coding agent, to achieve a goal. This takes place at a strategic level. Prior to the inception of LLMs, we focused mainly on how to write code to achieve a goal. This took place at a tactical level, and required making decisions and paying attention to a multitude of details. With LLMs our focus shifts to a higher-level abstraction. Also, operational concerns change. When writing and maintaining code yourself, you focus on architectures that help you simplify some classes of changes. When using LLMs, your focus shifts to building context and aiding the model effectively implement their changes. The two goals seem related, but are radically different.
I think a fairer description is that with LLMs we stop exercising some skills that are only required or relevant if you are writing your code yourself. It's like driving with an automatic transmission vs manual transmission.
Re: A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
#449> LLM coding will split up engineers based on those who primarily liked coding and those who primarily liked building. I’ve always said I’m a builder even though I’ve also enjoyed programming (but for an outcome, never for the sake of the code) This perfectly sums up what I’ve been observing between people like me (builders) who are ecstatic about this new world and programmers who talk about the craft of programming…
But how can you be a responsible builder if you don't have trust in the LLMs doing the "right thing"? Suppose you're the head of a software team where you've picked up the best candidates for a given project, in that scenario I can see how one is able to trust the team members to orchestrate the implementation of your ideas and intentions, with you not being intimately familiar with the details. Can we place the same…
I test all of the code I produce via LLMs, usually doing fairly tight cycles. I also review the unit test coverage manually, so that I have a decent sense that it really is testing things - the goal is less perfect unit tests and more just quickly catching regressions. If I have a lot of complex workflows that need testing, I'll have it write unit tests and spell out the specific edge cases I'm worried about, or setup cheat codes I can invoke to test those workflows out in the UI/CLI.
Trust comes from using them often - you get a feeling for what a model is good and bad at, and what LLMs in general are good and bad at. Most of them are a bit of a mess when it comes to UI design, for instance, but they can throw together a perfectly serviceable "About This" HTML page. Any long-form text they write (such as that About page) is probably trash, but that's super-easy to edit manually. You can often just edit down what they write: they're actually decent writers, just very verbose and unfocused.
I find it similar to management: you have to learn how each employee works. Unless you're in the Top 1%, you can't rely on every employee giving 110% and always producing perfect PRs. Bugs happen, and even NASA-strictness doesn't bring that down to zero.
And just like management, some models are going to be the wrong employee for you because they think your style guide is stupid and keep writing code how they think it should be written.
Re: A few random notes from Claude coding quite a bit last few weeks
#450> You realize that stamina is a core bottleneck to work There has been a lot of research that shows that grit is far more correlated to success than intelligence. This is an interesting way to show something similar. AIs have endless grit (or at least as endless as your budget). They may outperform us simply because they don't ever get tired and give up. Full quote for context: Tenacity. It's so interesting to watch…
Sometimes it's a
// TODO: implement logic
or a"this feature would require extensive logic and changes to the existing codebase".
Sometimes they just declare their work done. Ignoring failing tests and builds.
You can nudge them to keep going but I often feel like, when they behave like this, they are at their limit of what they can achieve.