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Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#441

Post by timcobb »

nathanlied wrote: post #414
Amir_A wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is...? Jews were living peacefully in Palestine long before the establishment of a judeo-supremacist apartheid state, to the point you had entire refugee boats of Ashkenazis seeking safe harbor from the holocaust, who ironically became the cornerstone founding population of the Jewish state after the Nakba in 1948 killed and forcefully expelled hundreds of thousands of people (it's the ultimate cautionary t…

There was a lot of inter-community conflict in the years (decades) preceding the formation of Israel, so it wasn't exactly peaceful. That there were some groups (on both sides, though the Jewish ones were far more effective, well-trained, and well-funded) that exploited those conflicts for escalation does not deny that the conflict already existed. I would also argue that imposing the jizya/dhimmi status, creating "s…

> I would also argue that imposing the jizya/dhimmi status, creating "second class citizen status" for non-Muslims was, in and of itself, a form of Muslim-supremacist society in Palestine before Israel existed. Either convert to being a Muslim, or be stuck as a second-class citizen.

100 percent. I've gotten the impression that this not being the case anymore is extremely irritating to extremist Muslims. This issue alone will fuel the conflict forever.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#442

Post by LorenPechtel »

recroad wrote: post #253
elcritch wrote: post #70

Personally I think that defensive technology like this is fantastic. It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones. Israeli civilians have faced bombardment by tens of thousands of rockets from Gaza for the last 20 years [1]. Outside the Middle East there's many areas threatened by combatants with similar cheap missiles. P…

Data says it’s the Palestinians that need defenses, not the ones doing 95% of the killing. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

The defenses they need are against Hamas.

Nobody else comes close to Israel in protecting civilians in combat zones.

And let's take a critical eye to that data you linked. I'm having a hard time with the filters but we can see enough without: The fatalities are nearly 90% male. That implies that probably 80% are in some fashion combatants or combatant-adjacent.

And note that the death toll for the recent war includes all deaths. Natural causes, internal combat, rockets falling short (historically, ~25% of Gaza deaths, but probably not this time), combatants and civilians. As well as some that are fake.

And Hamas had the power to end the war at any time--return the hostages, the world would quickly have stopped Israel. Thus we can conclude that Hamas wanted the war despite what it did to their population.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#443

Post by LorenPechtel »

buran77 wrote: post #296
elcritch wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel invests in defending their civilians with technology like Iron Beam. In contrast the Gazan government strategically uses humans shields [2, 3] and despite this the majority of Palestinians still support starting this war by attacking civilians on Oct 7th [1]. Defense technology doesn’t help if you don’t want it unfortunately. Hamas also has hundreds of miles of tunnels which civilians aren’t allowed to use. 1:…

> the Gazan government strategically uses humans shields This just means Israel knows they're hitting women and children every time they send a bomb their way. > the majority of Palestinians still support starting this war Palestine isn't a democracy with well documented preferences. Israel is though, so why don't you say that a majority of Israelis are fine with the killing of women and children in Gaza? elcritch, y…

1) The average death per bomb was less than 1. Strikes mostly hit things which had already been evacuated.

2) When human shields get hit we blame the side that put them in harm's way, not the side that harmed them. Just look at the criminal trials in police actions--a hostage dies when SWAT hits a place, the murder rap lands on the person who took the hostage even if it turns out to be a police bullet in the hostage.

And your note about WMD--said WMD existed. On paper. We read the paper, didn't realize it was underlings lying to Saddam.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#444

Post by tguvot »

jvanderbot wrote: post #394
CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #292

Drone tech will adapt, as it has been in the russia/ukraine conflict. A small, fast, autonomous drone flying between trees and buildings, avoiding obstacles and not flying in a straight line could destroy such an expensive system with very little explosive. Or a cloud of such drones. Or launch your attack on a foggy/rainy day.

Its so fun to armchair general drones nowadays. I think they're hoping this will be useful against long range cruise missile style drones, not hyper agile FPVs. Agile FPVs have not been a major threat from Iran vs Israel. Does israel get a lot of fog and rain? Might this be part of a layered defense?

https://www.rafael.co.il/system/lite-beam/

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#445

Post by [deleted] »

elcritch wrote: post #386
Amir_A wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is...? Jews were living peacefully in Palestine long before the establishment of a judeo-supremacist apartheid state, to the point you had entire refugee boats of Ashkenazis seeking safe harbor from the holocaust, who ironically became the cornerstone founding population of the Jewish state after the Nakba in 1948 killed and forcefully expelled hundreds of thousands of people (it's the ultimate cautionary t…

Zionist settlement started in the 1870’s on legally purchased land. Most of that land was uninhabited. Tel Aviv was founded on literal sand dunes in 1908 and is Israel’s most populated area. Jaffa was the closest Arab city which is still predominately Arab. Northern Israel become majority Jewish without military force under the Ottomans and then British empires. However even then there were regular pogroms and killin…

[deleted]

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#446

Post by mupuff1234 »

snickerbockers wrote: post #408
mupuff1234 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a scenario where israel doesn't need bomb shelters or sirens since rockets are destroyed almost instantly. Right now even if iron dome works it still greatly disrupts the day to day life in israel (not to mention the pure financial burden of interception) Now I doubt the technology is anywhere close to that now, but in 10-20 years alongside other technological advancements? Who knows.

Their constant warmongering is why they constantly are being bombarded with rockets. That you're primarily concerned with disruption to life and financial burden rather than casualties and infrastructure indicates that iron dome is already capable of preventing these rockets from being a serious threat. The absolute asymmetry of every war they fight is proof enough that the only real solution is a commitment to negot…

Disruption to life and financial burden are serious threats if they occur on a constant basis and not just one off.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#447

Post by timcobb »

simoom22 wrote: post #422
elcritch wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zionist settlement started in the 1870’s on legally purchased land. Most of that land was uninhabited. Tel Aviv was founded on literal sand dunes in 1908 and is Israel’s most populated area. Jaffa was the closest Arab city which is still predominately Arab. Northern Israel become majority Jewish without military force under the Ottomans and then British empires. However even then there were regular pogroms and killin…

Your version is plenty uncut and soggy as well. A significant amount of land buys involved evictions of peasants. There was plenty of violence in the arab revolts against British rule, when Jewish militia acted as British auxiliaries. Pogroms were very rare in pre-modern Arab lands, and usually related to factional politics, since jews often had significant political rights and power. The British suck. Most MENA Jews…

> Most MENA Jews migrated voluntarily

This is silly... what mass migration happens "voluntarily" lol. MENA Jews weren't even Zionists until they force-became Zionists.

But yeah, good-faith debates should steer clear of the "legally purchased" bit, it's kind of absurd to ignore that buying land from absentee rich landlords and evicting the longstanding residents is not going to (rightfully, IMO) create a lot of animosity.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#450

Post by tguvot »

wildrhythms wrote: post #378
nir wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tiny fraction of the US budget which is almost entirely earmarked to be spent buying from US suppliers but sure, the Jews are the reason you have a malfunctioning health system.

Conflating the state of Israel with "the Jews" is antisemitic. Many Jews do not support the state of Israel whatsoever.

just a random poll in canada: 94 per cent of the jewish community said they support Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state .

Pretty sure you will get similar outcome anywhere else

https://thecjn.ca/news/canadian-jews-overwhelmingly-support-...

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