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Valve is about to win the console generation

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Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#441

Post by johnnyanmac »

TheRoque wrote: post #51

I hardly understand the headline. Steam machine is just a computer, and since it can be used for other stuff than playing games, then it can't have the cheap pricing of a console. Most consoles are sold at a loss, and the benefits are made when selling console-exclusive games. If you sell something at a loss, but users aren't forced to buy your games, then you're not gonna make any money. Hence, the Steam Machine (AK…

Yeah, the fanboys are in bliss right now, but seeing this pre built cost 999 (and that's my most generous estimate) will bring them back down to earth.That would still be a good deal as long as the GPU is decent. But it's not "console killer" territory in the slightest.

I do look forward to buying the decade awaited iteration on the Steam Controller, though. Very underrated piece of tech.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#442

Post by johnnyanmac »

kouteiheika wrote: post #84
TheRoque wrote: post #51

I hardly understand the headline. Steam machine is just a computer, and since it can be used for other stuff than playing games, then it can't have the cheap pricing of a console. Most consoles are sold at a loss, and the benefits are made when selling console-exclusive games. If you sell something at a loss, but users aren't forced to buy your games, then you're not gonna make any money. Hence, the Steam Machine (AK…

> I hardly understand the headline. Steam machine is just a computer, and since it can be used for other stuff than playing games, then it can't have the cheap pricing of a console. I don't understand this train of thought. It absolutely can have the cheap pricing of a console, as long as Steam is the default store, and the majority of users will use the console as-is and buy games on Steam. Let me give a quick analo…

Defaults matter at scale. And as for scale, the Steam Deck has the most generous estimates at 7 million. For a side hustle that's great. For trying to compete with the scale of other consoles, that's not enough.

Hardware is very hard to break into. You can't treat it like software and expect to dominate.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#443

Post by someNameIG »

redwall_hp wrote: post #388
marginalia_nu wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the Steam Machine is in a newer generation than the PS5?

Its specs seem on par with the PS5 Pro, and this doesn't even have a price or a shipping date yet. The PS5 is already about five years old, has had a slim release and a PS5 Pro. The PS6 announcement is probably a year away, with a 2027 or 2028 release. Valve is launching a last-gen console, probably at a price that won't be competitive, right before the PS6 comes out.

I think Digital Foundry has expects the performance to be bit below the base PS5 in most cases. It has a new generation of CPU/GPU than the PS5, but less cores/ CUs. VRAM is also only 8GB, PCs generally need more than that to match PS5 settings.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#444

Post by johnnyanmac »

kouteiheika wrote: post #88
jsheard wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It absolutely can have the cheap pricing of a console Valve hasn't committed to a price yet, but they told Gamers Nexus that it'll be priced less like a console and more like an entry level computer (i.e. more expensive than a console).

I didn't say it "will", I said it "can". And since pricing is not announced yet we have no idea what they will do in the end.

Sega can also come back and announce a Dreamcast 2.

I'd rather work on likelyhoods than dreams.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#445

Post by johnnyanmac »

somenameforme wrote: post #109
jsheard wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That build uses a 13 year old CPU from AliExpress, there's no accounting for taste but I think most entry level builds are aiming a little higher than that. Some newer games won't even try to run on a CPU of that vintage since it doesn't have AVX2 support.

It was released in 2016 and does support AVX2. In general what matters when building a decent rig is aiming to balance performance to optimize against bottle necks. He demonstrated the system in various modern games, for instance running Delta Force at 4k/120FPS. And the CPU was scarcely getting touched - running at around 20%. You can spend a ton of money on a bleeding edge CPU and see 0 performance gain in almost a…

Gaming tends to adjust to consors, and we're nearing 6 years of gen 9 consoles. expect any "entry level gaming" computer to either be portable or competitive with the $600 price point I can grab at any major retailer.

Otherwise, sure. I can build a potato for $300 and i will probably enjoy Silksong just fine. But at that point why not buy a non-gaming laptop?

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#446

Post by johnnyanmac »

hamdingers wrote: post #429
wnevets wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An "entry level" computer which could mean anything. Perhaps but I don't feel like Valve going out of their way to specifically say that the steam machine will not be priced like a console leaves a ton of room for interpretation. With the current state of the industry & tariffs I would be shocked if its under $1000 USD.

A similar spec laptop from ASUS with a 7600S is $988 on Amazon right now, and it comes with a screen, keyboard, mouse, battery, and Windows license. I'd be shocked if Valve is so out of touch they would kill this thing with an unwarranted price tag, but I guess we'll see.

"Id be shocked if Valve is so out of touch they would kill this thing with an unwarranted price tag"

It happened a decade ago. Wouldn't surprise me.

My bet is it will be similar to steam deck. The starting specs will be somewhat comoetitve to a PS5 Pro but with huge compromises (in Steam Deck'Deck's case, flash storage). A model that competently competes with a proper gaming oc will probably be 1000 or so.

Valve got popularity in the handheld space because everyone else except Nintendo gave up in terms of consoles. That plus seeing the handheld PCs from china pop up showed ample opportunity. I'm not sure the same will apply here.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#447

Post by johnnyanmac »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #323
tinybear1 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft testified under oath in court that they lost money on every Xbox sold prior to the current generation. Sega lost money on every console prior to exiting the market. Nintendo sold various consoles at a loss (Wii U). The PlayStation 1 through 4 sold either at a loss or break even.

You're listing the losers in the market, the ones that had to drop prices to make sales. The real volume sellers weren't generally sold at a loss. Most Nintendo consoles were never sold at a loss. Sony often sold at a loss in the first year or so, but their redesigns made them profitable, and the vast majority of sales happened after redesigns. Moore's law was responsible for a large portion of the profits from hardw…

Okay. That doesn't conflict with their point. "No one had to sell at a loss... Except every non-market leader" only proves their point.

>, but their redesigns made them profitable

No one says consoles always sell at a loss. They are sold over 6-8 years and price drops are pretty conservative (until last gen where they ceased to be). Every conse eventually becomes profitable, but not in the years where they sell the most.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#448

Post by johnnyanmac »

jsmailes wrote: post #242

For me, the big killer feature would be if this device is approved for modern media DRM. As much as I'm tired of streaming and its level of control over how I watch TV, it's still a decent part of my media consumption, but any Linux mini-PC I connect to the TV can only do low-resolution streaming from most providers. If the steam machine is approved for high-resolution streaming, it could totally replace the smart TV…

Yeah. This is why I threw that all away and simply pirate for my NAS. Im not watching much new media to begin with. and they make it hell, if not impossible, to stream a lot of older shows. And of I do find them I need to compromise with how I stream it, with what account, and where.

I just got tired of all VPNs, the DRMs, and trying to tune my network just to try and get a decent feed. Instead, map a network drive once, find torrent, save to movies file, and let Plex (or Emby in my case, for historical reasons) find the metadata.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#449

Post by nitwit005 »

jsmailes wrote: post #242

For me, the big killer feature would be if this device is approved for modern media DRM. As much as I'm tired of streaming and its level of control over how I watch TV, it's still a decent part of my media consumption, but any Linux mini-PC I connect to the TV can only do low-resolution streaming from most providers. If the steam machine is approved for high-resolution streaming, it could totally replace the smart TV…

If Netflix can only get approval with Microsoft Edge or their app on Windows, with specific supported graphics hardware, I doubt there is much hope of that. They want essentially all the hardware and software locked down.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#450

Post by johnnyanmac »

xena wrote: post #135
intexpress wrote: post #94

To win this console generation and outsell the PS5, Valve would have to sell 85 million Steam Machines (as of today, and likely need to sell 120 million by the end of the generation). About a 0% chance of that happening. Looks cool, though

I'm implying they'd win via a cultural victory TBH

Everyone is sinking culture on real time. So winning by throwing a bread crumb out is technically correct, but not significant.
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