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Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

seattletimes.com

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Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#441

Post by lacker »

array_key_first wrote: post #403
dpoloncsak wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, feels like the company is within their right to press charges here? Dude is disabling the equipment that they use to turn revenue, no? Don't agree with the company, but I don't find a suit here ridiculous. If my job put up cameras, and my form of protest was to deface and disable them, I'd get fired. This isn't a job, it's government, but it's similar in my head. The people with the authority to do somethin…

I don't think this counts as property damage or vandalism because nothing is damaged or vandalized. Part of putting shit in public is that it now has to interact with the public. If you want your stuff pristine, I would think you should not put it in public. Maybe the law disagrees with me here, and it probably does because this country bends over backwards for companies, but that's how I see it.

Obviously it's property damage. How would you like it if someone covered the windshield of your car with glue?

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#442

Post by aerostable_slug »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #416
aerostable_slug wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers are being targeted [0]. It also can be difficult to successfully prosecute, especially when one can maintain a clean separation between the labor and the enterprise (agriculture is like this with Farm Labor Contractors). That said, I wish they would step up the prosecutions. It's critical to hammer away at economic incentives for illegal migration. [0] https://www.cpr.org/2025/04/30/ice-fines-colorado-janit…

very rarely, you see even americans being abducted at their work place but the company owners are mostly left alone. If employing illegal immigrants was that risky, it would drop dramatically. This isn't about illegal immigration, it is about hatred and cruelty. Native born american citizens are rotting in prison without so much as seeing a judge or a lawyer, if you defend that, you are a traitor. If you can at least…

You seem very angry. Why don't you reread my post and reflect on the fact that we actually agree?

Hiring illegal labor can be difficult to prosecute, much like straw man gun purchases can be difficult to prosecute. In both cases I feel we should try much harder.

Removing the economic incentives for illegal migration is the only way to make a massive dent in it.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#443

Post by hobs »

theultdev wrote: post #437
hobs wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should probably just... google it? https://www.npr.org/2024/09/18/g-s1-23667/vance-haiti-migran... This was widely reported at the time, thanks for playing.

Just as I suspected, spin. They were specifically talking about Haitians and the TPS status. He's saying they had no right to do that under the law. It's the same mess they got us into with DACA. So you have illegal aliens, protected under these very fragile and most likely unconstitutional EOs, when it's really not their authority. I partly agree with your original statement "changes to suit those in power". Yes, th…

Implying democrats use of executive power is the problem in the current situation is laughable at best and genuinely bizarre given the current administration's actions across so many avenues.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#444

Post by belorn »

CrimsonRain wrote: post #438
belorn wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it good for society to disable traffic cameras? Here in Sweden, traffic camera is used exclusively to reduce traffic speed on roads where the maximum speed is too fast for installing traffic bumps, with an expected effect of reducing traffic speed by around 20-30%. They are generally only installed on 60-90km/h roads, around road maintenance/construction sites, and in tunnels. They active when the radar detects sp…

Speed cameras help really little with preventing accidents unless we're talking about 200 at 100. Put in cameras that detect tailgating/not maintaining enough distance relative to speed. Now people can go faster while being safer.

The Swedish traffic agency, in combination with the health department, openly publish accident data for every road. Accidents and their outcomes are public data and has been so for a long time. The location of traffic cameras is also public and so is the date when they got installed. Everything is open to the public, and gps applications are allowed to both have the data and warn drivers.

The accident rate from before to after the installation of a camera has an average reduction of around 25% in reducing deaths in traffic. If someone don't believe it they can download the public data themselves and redo the math.

Sweden also do not have traffic cameras on highways, most likely because they are ineffective in reducing deadly outcomes at those speeds. The chance of surviving a frontal collision at 100km/h is highly unlikely, so the cost of installation a camera is better spent on roads with lower maximum speeds where the reduction in average speed actually have an effect on outcomes.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#445

Post by belorn »

marssaxman wrote: post #425
belorn wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it good for society to disable traffic cameras? Here in Sweden, traffic camera is used exclusively to reduce traffic speed on roads where the maximum speed is too fast for installing traffic bumps, with an expected effect of reducing traffic speed by around 20-30%. They are generally only installed on 60-90km/h roads, around road maintenance/construction sites, and in tunnels. They active when the radar detects sp…

Here in Seattle the traffic cameras are not used to limit speed, but to monitor intersections for red-light violations. The glue-squirting fellow in my anecdote objected to the fact that the for-profit corporation which builds and operates these cameras gets a cut of the revenue from the citations they issue. He felt that it was one thing to enforce the law, and quite another thing to run a profitable business doing…

That makes more sense. Traffic accidents should not be a profit center, and placing cameras where it makes the most money is unlikely to align with places where it has the biggest impact on reducing fatal accidents. The Vision Zero goal that Sweden has is often cited as a guiding rule for designing the road system, including the use of measures like road bumps and traffic cameras. Giving money from the fines to a for-profit corporation seems fairly obvious that it will create perverse incentives.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#446

Post by p_ing »

bdangubic wrote: post #313
SilverElfin wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody likes them This seems like an unsupported assumption. Lots of people like them. Anyone who wants policing to be effective and cares about crime / public safety would like them to have the best tools.

> Anyone who wants policing to be effective and cares about crime / public safety would like them to have the best tools. This depends on what the “cost” is for this “safety,” no? "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

Ben Franklin's Famous 'Liberty, Safety' Quote Lost Its Context In 21st Century [0]

(it was about the legislature being able to legislate [taxes])

[0] https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#447

Post by alsetmusic »

sixothree wrote: post #250
mikkupikku wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redactions are necessary to protect innocent members of the public. Going through all the footage from every officer every single day to perform these redactions would require a huge amount of manpower. That may change with new technology, but until it can be automated reliably, the WA legislature got this right. With shit like traffic cameras, I don't think redactions are necessary, although it would be nice if all…

> Redactions are necessary to protect innocent members of the public If these controls don't exist inside the organization, they shouldn't exist for the public either.

Are you saying that a child in the car with their DUI parent deserves to be on a YouTube bodycam channel because cops have to appear uncensored in the same video? I genuinely don't understand how you could mean anything else, and that makes me think I misunderstood. I sure hope I did.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#448

Post by jesterson »

belorn wrote: post #397
jesterson wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only this does good to society in the obvious way, but also creates jobs as someone needs to clean those. Kudos to the guy, who single-handedly doing what almost all politicians miserably fail at.

Is it good for society to disable traffic cameras? Here in Sweden, traffic camera is used exclusively to reduce traffic speed on roads where the maximum speed is too fast for installing traffic bumps, with an expected effect of reducing traffic speed by around 20-30%. They are generally only installed on 60-90km/h roads, around road maintenance/construction sites, and in tunnels. They active when the radar detects sp…

> Is it good for society to disable traffic cameras?

Its going to be unpopular but yes i think so. Traffic cameras, besides very few use cases, are completely useless (just like speed limits in general). Plus it's a huge temptation for local authorities to turn it into a cash cow and put it anywhere they please regardless of necessity. Italy is rife with those for example.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#449

Post by jesterson »

belorn wrote: post #444
CrimsonRain wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed cameras help really little with preventing accidents unless we're talking about 200 at 100. Put in cameras that detect tailgating/not maintaining enough distance relative to speed. Now people can go faster while being safer.

The Swedish traffic agency, in combination with the health department, openly publish accident data for every road. Accidents and their outcomes are public data and has been so for a long time. The location of traffic cameras is also public and so is the date when they got installed. Everything is open to the public, and gps applications are allowed to both have the data and warn drivers. The accident rate from befor…

> The accident rate from before to after the installation of a camera has an average reduction of around 25% in reducing deaths in traffic

Try to forbid movement in the area and you can reach 100% reduce in deaths.

Statistics and data doesn't tell you the whole picture and often skewed.

Most crimes in Sweden are committed by "refugees" by huge margin, but good luck doing something about it or let alone talk about it publicly. But hey, lets install another camera to have everyone to slow down and exacerbate traffic conditions further down.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#450

Post by jesterson »

mothballed wrote: post #398
belorn wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it good for society to disable traffic cameras? Here in Sweden, traffic camera is used exclusively to reduce traffic speed on roads where the maximum speed is too fast for installing traffic bumps, with an expected effect of reducing traffic speed by around 20-30%. They are generally only installed on 60-90km/h roads, around road maintenance/construction sites, and in tunnels. They active when the radar detects sp…

Reducing speed by 20-30% at scale results in a very large loss of man-years of lives in the form of sitting in a car. Reduced earning capacity, lost time with their families, waking up earlier and risks to health associated with reduced sleep, less theoretical throughput of roadways, reduced money for education/food/childcare when they accidently go too fast for a moment and are fined, lack of discretion in issuing t…

Its incredible how very reasonable thoughts and arguments are downvoted.

For those who downvote - lets just forbid movement to reach 100% reduce in movement related injuries, is that your strategy?

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