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Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

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Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#441

Post by jkhdigital »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #395
jonhohle wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative being when someone becomes inconvenient to others we should encourage their death? What good is compassion or empathy when the lesser in society could just go off and die, right? Why stop at incurable diseases? Political opponents, coworkers, nasty service workers, double parkers, lawyers, and many other groups cause a lot of anguish and suffering.

Nobody's saying that anyone should be encouraged to die. That is an evil thing. But that does not mean that people should not be permitted to choose to die vs suffer.

There’s no bright line. Suffering is a subjective experience. Lack of prohibition is tantamount to encouragement.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#442

Post by jkhdigital »

teiferer wrote: post #295
jonhohle wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative being when someone becomes inconvenient to others we should encourage their death? What good is compassion or empathy when the lesser in society could just go off and die, right? Why stop at incurable diseases? Political opponents, coworkers, nasty service workers, double parkers, lawyers, and many other groups cause a lot of anguish and suffering.

And that's what makes it a hard topic. Because you need to draw a line, and everybody will have opinions about the line's position. Rightfully. But it being a hard topic does not imply the easy solution of banning it.

I would argue that banning it is not an “easy solution” but in fact the hardest solution.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#443

Post by fn-mote »

Noaidi wrote: post #404
LorenPechtel wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you see depression? Note the article mentions a partner--he lost his wife but he had found someone else so I do not think this is a result of losing his wife.

I think it was this part that stuck out to me. “His partner died in 2018 as a result of vascular dementia. The loss affected him deeply.” I can see that loss affecting him even though he had a new partner. Depression does not always go away when you meet someone new. But I think people with depression have lost hope in the future. And it sounds like he lost Hope in his future.

> it sounds like he lost hope in his future

People in their 80's are watching their friends die one after the other. They aren't fooling themselves about their long-term prospects. No problems with enjoying life, I support that, but it's hard to believe the end isn't coming for you like it comes for everyone else.

I just think this idea that it is "hope" or "depression" is wrong-headed.

Having some older friends might give you a deeper perspective.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#444

Post by joomla199 »

taejavu wrote: post #438
joomla199 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s largely a popsci book for poseurs. To wit: most of these people “into economics” haven’t read a word of Smith or Keynes. It’s best use is to be announced your favorite book among undistinguished company. Some people need such books. Such as those from Smith and Keynes.

Since you’re giving an edgy take in a thread discussing the death of a respected author, I’ll be pedantic: you’re wrong about those people not reading a word of Smith or Keynes, since it’s impossible to avoid reading at least one of their common quotations if you have even a passing interest in the field.

You’re in the wrong thread then. This one is discussing a book. Perhaps the word thread doesn’t work too well with your intent.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#445

Post by jkhdigital »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #390
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s irrelevant here. What is relevant is that we have a contempt for human life and a lack of charity. The teacher was not at fault for his condition. We should learn magnanimity. Sure, we can think about how the burdens of caring for our family can be lessened as they age, or how we may help reduce that burden for our family, but family does have the duty to care for its members, and to place such considerations…

This is not contempt for human life. It is a recognition that sometimes as the body deteriorates that the quality of life becomes negative. I watched both of my parents deteriorate in the end. The morphine blotted out my father's ability to form long term memory, if it wasn't in front of him things were like they had been before so much morphine was needed. There can be no value in such "life". As far as I'm concerne…

This is about assisted suicide. You can argue all day long about how you have the right to end your own life, but the real issue is whether you have the right to grant another person immunity from charges of homicide for facilitating your death. That is an entirely different beast.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#446

Post by yawpitch »

hackernewds wrote: post #279
NaomiLehman wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you I just learned about it. Seems compatible with atheism.

It absolutely does not. Jainism is even stricter than Hinduism, to be co-opted with a faithless belief system

Atheism isn’t a faithless belief system, it is the absence of either a faith or a belief system.

That absence is also quite compatible with Jainism, the core moral precept of which is simply do no violence.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#447

Post by firesteelrain »

anigbrowl wrote: post #420
firesteelrain wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not really a shift. The slippery slope is the heart of the debate. Once assisted suicide is allowed, the line between respecting autonomy and others making that decision blurs. Safeguards may help, but asking where to draw the line is the central problem.

Yes it. You are not the arbiter of what the heart of the debate is.

I am freely able to set the tone and make arguments wherever I see fit in responding

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#448

Post by torginus »

This is a bit of an aside but I wonder if people who possess greater intellectual capacity are more resilient - at least outwardly - against old-age mental decline, as even their mental function diminishes, they have an excess buffer so that they are slower to cross the 'threshold' where their inability to mentally function in everyday life becomes apparent?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#449

Post by rolandog »

HighGoldstein wrote: post #382
rolandog wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your comment and it strikes me as a cautionary tale that can be used by bad people to justify or push for eugenics: "they took him; they said he developed Alzheimer's" . As we're currently seeing happen: whatever is left unsaid in the body of the law can and will be abused by evil people to concentrate more power (even if the spirit of the law advocates for something kind). So, we have to normalize some sort o…

> I read your comment and it strikes me as a cautionary tale that can be used by bad people to justify or push for eugenics: "they took him; they said he developed Alzheimer's". Isn't the point of eugenics to influence population genetic trends? Not a very effective strategy to kill people when they already have probably 2 generations of descendents.

I think you are right — definitionwise. But I think you're not thinking about the impacts it can have when grossly misused as I hinted, and how this might be one tool in the cruelty toolbelt of oppressive regimes.

By targeting their support networks, the "baddies" effectively end up making the new generations risk for impoverishment greater (can't let the kids at grandma's, have to pay for daycare, lose access to nutritious inexpensive meals, etc).

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#450

Post by aniviacat »

mcdonje wrote: post #51

The sad demise of Robin Williams made me a believer of assisted suicide. The option to go out with dignity should be available to everyone. That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. That needs to be solved. Seems like an easy solve. Just don't do it. There is a cost reduction incentive, though,…

> it keeps getting recommended

In Germany, it was illegal for doctors to recommend or advertise abortion, and that worked pretty well. You could do the same for assisted suicide.

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