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Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#441

Post by iamnothere »

aftergibson wrote: post #189

A secure, optional digital ID could be useful. But not in today’s UK. Why? Because the state has already shown it can’t be trusted with our data. - Snoopers’ Charter (Investigatory Powers Act 2016): ISPs must keep a year’s worth of records of which websites you visit. More than 40 agencies—from MI5 to the Welsh Ambulance Service—can request it. MI5 has already broken the rules and kept data it shouldn’t have. - Encry…

But don’t you understand, it will be so convenient. Just imagine the convenience! Are you opposed to convenience?

Frankly, you’re just being paranoid. It’s possible that mandatory digital ID could be abused, but officials haven’t yet announced their intentions to abuse it. So why are you so worried? You’re already tracked everywhere you go, and many countries already have this system. It seems to work well there for keeping people in line. Do you have something to hide? Seems a little suspicious, no?

(Did I miss any talking points?)

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#442

Post by NicuCalcea »

a022311 wrote: post #402

The same thing is happening in Greece. The new mandatory digital ID replaces and unifies everything about citizens in one place, "to make it easier for government services to share information between each other". It can indeed be useful, but the privacy implications are enormous. Just imagine that a policeman, employer or anybody else with access to the information linked to the ID can instantly view our medical rec…

> Just imagine that a policeman, employer or anybody else with access to the information linked to the ID can instantly view our medical records, tax status and even simpler things like if we've ever been caught driving while drunk

Why would I imagine that? There are privacy implications, but a unique ID doesn't mean everyone has access to all your data at any time for any reason.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#443

Post by m6h12 »

rock_artist wrote: post #70
mrtksn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banks and service providers can ask for your digital ID, the employers can ask for your digital ID and when that becomes the standart you will have very hard time to have a life in UK without having all the permissions. Most of EU and many other countries have something like that, at least you have a citizenship or resident number that they can check against to see what's your situation. In UK though, everything…

> In UK though, everything is run over proof of address and it's quite annoying for new immigrants(legal or not) because its circular. The circular issue is quite similar to Spain. Where in order to obtain residency you need an address. But for being able to rent, most likely you’ll need a bank account and ideally a Spanish identification number. But for having a local bank account you need an address. Similar to the…

There is a way to get into the Spanish bureaucracy quite painlessly! Its NIE blanco. You can get it in any Spanish embassy, before even getting to Spain. With that you can create a bank account or job hunt.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#444

Post by basisword »

prmph wrote: post #437

I don't know what western countries are thinking. The concept of an isolated nation state is fast approaching obsolescence. Very soon, it will be clear that it is meaningless to put strong restrictions on the free movement of people. And history shows that an emphasis on keeping people out is a precursor to the decline of an empire. One thing I never understand: if people want to come to your country, that is a vote…

There are many legal routes to immigration and seeking asylum. People choose to move illegally because they won’t succeed on the legal routes and know that once they’re in the country the chance of them being deported is pretty low.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#445

Post by ktosobcy »

bArray wrote: post #429
ktosobcy wrote: post #416

UK's (and USA's) aversion to state ID is quite amusing... and then solving everything that not-having-national-ID causes requires absurd solutions... but hey "ID is the worst thing ever"

In the UK, the individual never used to interact with their government at all. We value our privacy and lack of government interference, and everything was legal unless it was explicitly outlined as illegal. It was a high trust society. Since being forced into globalisation and the concept of a border being essentially abolished (of course unless you talk about Ukraine, in which case billions can be spent on enforcin…

> Since being forced into globalisation

You mean the time when the UK concquered the whole world and formed "The empire on which the sun never sets"? Yeees... UK was forced into globalization xD

Alas, any country where "doing anything unless it's forbidden" results in a clusterf* that the USA is today, and it has nothing to do with trust or being "civilized"

As for breaches - you are aware that the civilized society can have national IDs - plastic one, issued by the state that are used for... well... IDentification that don't require uber-surviliance and centralizing data worse than in China? Just because UK does something stupid (and it's on a record roll past decades) doesn't mean that the concept of ID is wrong... For example in Poland and in Spain you can easily get doctors appointment just by showing up and waving your ID…

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#447

Post by array_key_first »

basisword wrote: post #439
ghusto wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was reading through your post, finding it difficult to find fault with anything you were saying, but something wasn't sitting right. And then ... > I'm certain it's worked well in other countries It has! In the Netherlands for example, it's just an incredibly convenient system, and if there's anything dodgy going on I'm not aware of it. So what makes the UK so different to the Netherlands? Genuine question, because I…

>> So what makes the UK so different to the Netherlands? Id say it’s not a difference in the politicians but the citizens. Pessimism and paranoia are rampant in the UK. We already went through this ID card debate 20 years ago and the fear-mongering won. So the idea just reignites that debate with a lot of baggage. The UK has various systems in place to ensure people are legally allowed to work, rent, etc but in reali…

Because the government doesn't actually care about illegal workers. Otherwise, like you said, they would spend 1/100th the money and go after low hanging fruit.

Which begs the question - if that's not the purpose of this law, then what is?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#448

Post by array_key_first »

iamnothere wrote: post #441
aftergibson wrote: post #189

A secure, optional digital ID could be useful. But not in today’s UK. Why? Because the state has already shown it can’t be trusted with our data. - Snoopers’ Charter (Investigatory Powers Act 2016): ISPs must keep a year’s worth of records of which websites you visit. More than 40 agencies—from MI5 to the Welsh Ambulance Service—can request it. MI5 has already broken the rules and kept data it shouldn’t have. - Encry…

But don’t you understand, it will be so convenient. Just imagine the convenience! Are you opposed to convenience? Frankly, you’re just being paranoid. It’s possible that mandatory digital ID could be abused, but officials haven’t yet announced their intentions to abuse it. So why are you so worried? You’re already tracked everywhere you go, and many countries already have this system. It seems to work well there for…

> officials haven’t yet announced their intentions to abuse it.

This one is my favorite. I don't know if it's just unthinkable naivety or a misunderstanding of how bad actors work, but it boggles my mind that this type of reasoning is often one of the top arguments I hear.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#449

Post by basisword »

pera wrote: post #239

I am quite confused by this point: > A new digital ID scheme will help combat illegal working If you are an immigrant you already have to prove your right to work with a share code: https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work/get-a-share-code-onli... And if you claim to be a citizen you must show a passport or birth certificate: https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work So how exactly will this new digital ID help "stop thos…

Easier to check during a raid? There’s no requirement to have a birth certificate or passport or other ID on your person. If they currently check national insurance numbers and names you can give someone else’s (no photo).

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#450

Post by array_key_first »

NicuCalcea wrote: post #442
a022311 wrote: post #402

The same thing is happening in Greece. The new mandatory digital ID replaces and unifies everything about citizens in one place, "to make it easier for government services to share information between each other". It can indeed be useful, but the privacy implications are enormous. Just imagine that a policeman, employer or anybody else with access to the information linked to the ID can instantly view our medical rec…

> Just imagine that a policeman, employer or anybody else with access to the information linked to the ID can instantly view our medical records, tax status and even simpler things like if we've ever been caught driving while drunk Why would I imagine that? There are privacy implications, but a unique ID doesn't mean everyone has access to all your data at any time for any reason.

All it takes is one breach or vulnerability and then yes, they DO have access to all your data.

Imagine someone steals your driver's license. No biggie.

Now imagine they steal your identity which is linked to everything you ever do.

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