Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

metalhearf.fr

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 656 posts

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#441

Post by varispeed »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #412
varispeed wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and if people point out EU is completely corrupt and we have complete breakdown of any agencies that should keep it under control, they get downvoted. EU turns into fascist (policies controlled by corporations) quasi state before our eyes. If you are working for any crime agency, put away biscuits and move your lazy arse to work!

No, I strongly disagree. The EU is by far one of the least corrupt and most transparent organizations in European History, by design and by process. The fact that I am able to produce all those reference documents in the previous comment is substantial evidence of this. The issue here is the European Comission. Both in the appointment of Commissioners as well as in the checks and balances against the Comissioners and…

I don’t dispute that we can dig up documents after the fact. That’s not the same as being transparent by design - that’s damage control.

The Ombudsman’s findings themselves show maladministration, secretive lobbying, and conflicts of interest. That’s not a healthy system keeping itself in check; that’s outsiders catching it after the harm is done.

Saying ‘it’s only the Commission’ is like saying ‘it’s only the engine’ when your car catches fire. The structure allows it, the culture rewards it, and the safeguards are paper-thin if not non-existent.

If the EU really is ‘the least corrupt in history,’ then why are Palantir and Thorn shaping surveillance laws (terrorism dressed as such) in back rooms while the public only finds out years later - and law enforcement looks away? That’s not just a bad apple problem - that’s systemic rot.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#442

Post by hollerith »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #438
hollerith wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it very unlikely that "knives, bayonets, and IEDs would have been equally effective". The ALN ambushed French convoys and patrols, raided isolated military outposts and police stations and defended themselves when their camps and zones were attacked. I doubt the ALN could have succeeded in those encounters even one tenth as often as they actually did if they had no access or much worse access to guns (with "su…

>Was there a single significant war, rebellion or revolution in the last 100 years where both sides didn't have a gun for every fighter or almost that many guns? I'm not sure, but I doubt it. Again though, the French like the Americans in Afghanistan, were not defeated on the battlefield. They lost because they got tired of fighting the natives and the war had become politically unpopular. Howeer, even if I stipulate…

>the French like the Americans in Afghanistan, were not defeated on the battlefield. They lost because they got tired of fighting the natives and the war had become politically unpopular.

I don't see how your distinction is relevant. Since 1962, it has been the people the ALN wanted to have power (i.e., not anybody in Europe) who have made all the important policy decisions in Algeria. Since the Taliban took Kabul in Aug 2021, they've made all the important national decisions in Afghanistan. All the US's trillions in spending (and about 2800 American lives lost) gives it no say.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#443

Post by wpasc »

ycombigators wrote: post #430
txrx0000 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK doesn't have the exact equivalent of chat control yet, but it already arrests people for politically incorrect posts. They're doing things in smaller steps, which is more likely to succeed.

[dead]

Are you certain the person you just replied to is not in a marginalised group? If that person is, would you be running afoul of that law with "Don't be a moron."?

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#444

Post by LexiMax »

DangitBobby wrote: post #268
ux266478 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an American, it came as a surprise to me that we do not, in fact, have broadly shared values about our system of governance. It shouldn't, America is two very distinct nations. The shape and nature of those nations vary wildly in classical Baudrilliardian sidewinding progression, but it's rooted in the very early history of British North America. Two distinct primogenitor colonies and societies, Jamestown and Pl…

Of course I understood there were vast cultural and political differences causing tension. I just also believed that we had a shared system of fundamental values enshrined in the constitution and when push came to shove, we would all rally behind it. That's what I thought American patriotism meant; I genuinely thought I could count on Red voters to rabidly defend the constitution.

> I just also believed that we had a shared system of fundamental values enshrined in the constitution and when push came to shove, we would all rally behind it.

The US had a Civil War in the 19th century over the fear of the southern states that the northern states would not only refuse to continue to be complicit in the institution of slavery, but eventually end it.

The seceding states wrote slavery, as well as protections of the property rights of slave-owners, into their constitution.

After the war came the scaling back of Lincoln's planned reconstruction, sharecropping and Jim Crow. There are people alive today who remember segregation.

White supremacy is as American as apple pie.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#445

Post by mapontosevenths »

hollerith wrote: post #442
mapontosevenths wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Was there a single significant war, rebellion or revolution in the last 100 years where both sides didn't have a gun for every fighter or almost that many guns? I'm not sure, but I doubt it. Again though, the French like the Americans in Afghanistan, were not defeated on the battlefield. They lost because they got tired of fighting the natives and the war had become politically unpopular. Howeer, even if I stipulate…

>the French like the Americans in Afghanistan, were not defeated on the battlefield. They lost because they got tired of fighting the natives and the war had become politically unpopular. I don't see how your distinction is relevant. Since 1962, it has been the people the ALN wanted to have power (i.e., not anybody in Europe) who have made all the important policy decisions in Algeria. Since the Taliban took Kabul in…

It's relevant because the guns did not stop them from being invaded, or force the invaders to leave. A poorly trained group of insurgents can't defeat a modern military in battle.

Politics were ultimately the thing that won the war, and if it happens here the results will be the same. Our 'well regulated militia' of gravy seals won't even slow the military down in battle, it will be up to the citizenry to wear them down gradually.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#446

Post by nikkwong »

Aloisius wrote: post #232
nikkwong wrote: post #151

Imagine a future where it becomes easier to commit terrorism because of some technological advancements—like smaller, less traceable bombs, or chemical weapons that are easily accessible and lead to higher casualties—like in the 1,000s or more. Imagine in that scenario, that the likelihood of you or someone you know becoming the victim of a terrorist attack is now non-trivial in your society. In a future where this b…

> They feel incredibly safe and don't have to worry about being victims of crimes, having their packages stolen, walking around late at night alone, etc. Em. I think feeling incredibly safe has more to do with the media telling people that no crime exists and all criminals are caught, rather than a reality of zero crime. There is evidence that crime started being systematically under-recorded in China since they star…

Sorta yes and sorta no? You're factually correct; but practically missing the point a little bit. At my relative's place, which has many tall buildings around a hub, package delivery people leave all of the resident's packages on a very exposed and busy sidewalk. People walk by these packages all day and none of them are ever stolen. Could you imagine an Amazon delivery driver just leaving all of the packages for the Flatiron building on the sidewalk in NYC? It'd be a perverse Monty Python skit because the packages would all disappear before the delivery driver even left the area.

This sort of shared expectation of courtesy and safety is more common there; and it exists because of the surveillance state. I'm not advocating to live in a surveillance state; they're oppressive—the cons certainly outweigh the pros. There's no debating that. But the silver lining in that is borne of that cost is one that I think people there enjoy.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#447

Post by noncoml »

ycombigators wrote: post #432
drnick1 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age verification, while trivial to bypass (for now), has brought you closer to further privacy-invading restrictions. Next, VPNs will be attacked. Then it will be unsigned apps on "untrusted" operating systems.

Anonymity is not privacy.

VPN is not only for anonymity

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#448

Post by m_dupont »

ycombigators wrote: post #430
txrx0000 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK doesn't have the exact equivalent of chat control yet, but it already arrests people for politically incorrect posts. They're doing things in smaller steps, which is more likely to succeed.

[dead]

If chat control gets passed it will also be a law, passed by legislation.

The point is that laws can be unjust.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#449

Post by bfg_9k »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #425
txrx0000 wrote: post #287

Dear citizens of the EU: If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. What are you going to do when the government's interests inevitably drift out of alignment with yours? Start a political movement? You will have the police knocking on your door for criticizing the establishment. Start a revolution? You have no wea…

> Start a revolution? You have no weapons. (...) You have neither the pen nor the sword. We still have Euros. As long as enough companies and rich folk are more on our side than theirs, the government still has some incentive to serve us. I know, I know - money and politics, wealth and power, they go together at the high end. But there is the oft forgotten long tail, the rich and powerful at the scale of a city, a ne…

> 2) Citizens here may be significantly less armed, but the same is true of government officials, and even law enforcement is significantly less armed. It kind of evens out, unless military gets involved, but at that point all bets are off - no different than in the US.

I don't think that's a correct comparison. If shit ever did hit the proverbial fan, you can bet that any US military walking around an American city would be constantly worried about getting a lead injection from any Tom, Dick or Harry who's got a firearm.

I don't think the same can be said for the vast majority of European cities (assuming the military gets involved).

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#450

Post by TacticalCoder »

txrx0000 wrote: post #287

Dear citizens of the EU: If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. What are you going to do when the government's interests inevitably drift out of alignment with yours? Start a political movement? You will have the police knocking on your door for criticizing the establishment. Start a revolution? You have no wea…

[dead]
Post reply on HN