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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#441

Post by dimitar »

crabmusket wrote: post #430

I use a Mac M4 for work and have a Framework for myself. The M4 is a beast, but I have a different priority for a device I want to call "my own". I want more control over "my" device, and I don't demand the highest performance or battery life. I grew up on Windows, and for a long time dual-booted with various Linuxes, and eventually used WSL on the regular. But now with my Framework I'm running Fedora, so for the fir…

How quickly does your laptop start? I like this idea a lot, I am now going down the rabbithole of finding which distributions boot the fastest (I remember this mattered a lot to linux users about 20 years ago)

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#442

Post by hk1337 »

noisy_boy wrote: post #250
hk1337 wrote: post #143

I love the Framework hardware but not all that impressed with the choice of operating systems that are available. That’s not really Framework’s problem though.

What does that mean? I thought they offer Windows and Linux options? If you are referring to distros of the latter, you can install whichever you like, no?

Yes, you can even bring your own, the problem isn't with Framework in my case.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#444

Post by simiones »

froobius wrote: post #439
crabmusket wrote: post #430

I use a Mac M4 for work and have a Framework for myself. The M4 is a beast, but I have a different priority for a device I want to call "my own". I want more control over "my" device, and I don't demand the highest performance or battery life. I grew up on Windows, and for a long time dual-booted with various Linuxes, and eventually used WSL on the regular. But now with my Framework I'm running Fedora, so for the fir…

> I suppose, that I'm one of those weird types who likes to actually shut down their computer when they're not using it Erm, both windows and macs can be shut down Edit: I'm getting downvoted but the way it's phrased I don't understand the issue with shutting down on macs / window. I always shut them down.

The point, I believe, was that their laptop battery lasts longer than many people's, with any OS or battery, because they shut it down much more often than most.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#445

Post by [deleted] »

AuthAuth wrote: post #202
jadenPete wrote: post #175

I really, really want an ARM laptop with great Linux support. It's very difficult to justify buying an non-M series laptop today, when the M series laptops outperform x86 laptops in battery life by such a wide margin. I'm sure some of that is because Apple controls their entire hardware and software stack and can optimize macOS for battery life, but it's hard not to believe that the processor architecture (i.e. x86)…

The M Series doesn't get battery life rep due to it being arm its purely due to Apple optimizing for battery life and partly marketing it a ton. You can get x86 chips that can do 24HR playing a video which is 5 hours more than the M2/M3 laptops and keep in mind thats running bloated ass windows which probably uses 2-3x the system resources of macOS. I'm pretty sure the snapdragon chips out preform Apple silicon at al…

[deleted]

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#446

Post by turminal »

l11r wrote: post #440
Throwaway123129 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a Linux issue (Though the hibernate issues are!). It's a PC issue. Microsoft went on a crusade making hardware vendors implement S0 next to S3 but most hardware vendors now _only_ implement S0. So that the laptop can keep phoning home and download updates etc whilst closed. Which means it's impossible to turn off the CPU during suspend. it's always on. PC as a laptop platform is a complete joke.

S0 is a step forward. Disabling CPU entirely is just a "workaround". Both S3 and hibernation has a lot of security implications which S0 solves. Apple uses their own S0 alternative and it works... Perfectly? The real problem is that both AMD and Intel S0 implementations are mediocre at best and this is what they should fix. Also most vendors are dickheads and cannot even verify that their system even goes to S0ix sta…

In other words, for the user, it's not a step forward. It doesn't matter if the spec is perfect.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#447

Post by nottorp »

flexagoon wrote: post #437
nottorp wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not just carry a large battery-bank And a mouse, because non apple laptops are hard to use with just the trackpad. And the huge power adapter for the "gaming" laptop. ... sadly, it means I'll have to stick to Apple hardware for longer. As much as I think Cook is an idiot who's trying to dumb their products down to the point they're not even usable for power users, let alone developers.

> And the huge power adapter for the "gaming" laptop. Not if you get a properly standard-compliant laptop that uses USB PD for charging (like Framework)

I've actually bought a gaming laptop for someone this year. Asus. It comes with a brick proprietary charger that delivers the full power it can use and also with an USB PD that can't fully power it. Guess it works if not gaming, or gaming at reduced fps.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#448

Post by gargan »

phoronixrly wrote: post #425
gargan wrote: post #421

People need to switch to Snapdragon processors. No issues like that with Snapdragon processors, the X Elite chips is about as good as an M2 or M3 And the X Elite 2 with 18 cores will likely be announced today :D - https://www.qualcomm.com/company/events/snapdragon-summit

Thanks but no thanks. Trying to avoid qualcomm, broadcom and other open-source hostile companies.

Fair enough. There will be Ubuntu support just to let you know - https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-24-10-concept-snapdrag...

Apparently they're working with Qualcomm to make this happen.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#449

Post by whyoh »

Throwaway123129 wrote: post #366
maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

This is not a Linux issue (Though the hibernate issues are!). It's a PC issue. Microsoft went on a crusade making hardware vendors implement S0 next to S3 but most hardware vendors now _only_ implement S0. So that the laptop can keep phoning home and download updates etc whilst closed. Which means it's impossible to turn off the CPU during suspend. it's always on. PC as a laptop platform is a complete joke.

>So that the laptop can keep phoning home and download updates etc whilst closed.

On Windows, network connectivity in S0 standby is optional: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/146593-enable-disable-ne...

>Which means it's impossible to turn off the CPU during suspend. it's always on.

Hibernation is still an option, if you don't mind a slower resume.

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