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They Thought They Were Free (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#441

Post by qcnguy »

thrance wrote: post #436
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> little evidence of the same level of systemic abuse You not looking for it doesn't mean "little evidence." It's well documented that the previous administration pressured social media to silence views it didn't like, as well as instances of debanking conservative organizations. That's not to say this administration doesn't throw its weight around, too, but to think it's only one side make you complicit in the probl…

> It's well documented that Show us, then. There's nothing as egregious as what the right is currently doing to be found in the archives, and you know it.

Go read the emails the administration was sending to Twitter demanding people be taken down left and right. Or if you want a wider view than just the US, look at what European governments demand from social media companies. It's all censorship of the right by the left, zero in reverse.

But it's true that the left does not need to overtly threaten from the top as much because they already purged all the institutions of anyone who would resist them, so they can just coordinate directly across institutional lines. They don't need to threaten when they have plenty of insiders willing to do the work for them for ideological reasons, without being threatened.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#442

Post by FrustratedMonky »

Hikikomori wrote: post #437
exoverito wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no anti-authoritarian party. Are lockdowns not authoritarian? Do mandates to take an experimental vaccine not violate bodily autonomy? How quickly everyone forgets the widescale censorship and lawfare. Snowden had to flee the country and Chelsea Manning was imprisoned during the Obama presidency. On a more pragmatic level, take the one-party state of California, and the absurd burden of its regulations. Thes…

One side wants to impose restrictions to avoid loss of life and breakdown of the hospitals. The other wants some people to not exist anymore and are building camps to accomplish that. Shut the fuck up about both sides being the same.

And make one side rich.

One side: hey lets try to save people.

Other side: hey, how can I make rich people more rich at my own expense.

Totally equal.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#443

Post by qcnguy »

anigbrowl wrote: post #399
DrewADesign wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see... military drones; satellite surveillance; comms surveillance; giant network of flock cameras vacuuming up facial, descriptive vehicular, and license plate movement data; small-scale tactical nuclear weapons; a huge fleet of hypersonic aircraft and extremely maneuverable helicopters; decades of urban combat experience; militarized law enforcement; the largest military in the world by orders of magnitude fi…

Afghanistan

The Taliban lost immediately and was suppressed indefinitely until the US decided to leave. It's a good demonstration of how well the US military can suppress even decentralized and suicidally fanatical movements for as long as it wants.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#444

Post by FrustratedMonky »

exoverito wrote: post #390
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like a lot of what you are saying. But sadly I think it is an older view. Maybe this was true in 80's before social media. "American people are stubbornly allergic to authoritarianism" Literally 40%+ of Americans have voted for Authoritarianism. It's viewed as being 'tough'.

There is no anti-authoritarian party. Are lockdowns not authoritarian? Do mandates to take an experimental vaccine not violate bodily autonomy? How quickly everyone forgets the widescale censorship and lawfare. Snowden had to flee the country and Chelsea Manning was imprisoned during the Obama presidency. On a more pragmatic level, take the one-party state of California, and the absurd burden of its regulations. Thes…

"one-party state of California"

Or Texas. Lets not forget if we are calling both sides the same. There are states with one party. Alabama? Mississippi?

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#445

Post by qcnguy »

phony-account wrote: post #199
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also remind the short of memory that during covid, the states with the most draconian restrictions were mostly left-leaning, and many were loathe to give up that control. Control of the people comes from all sides. The end result is the same, but the methods are different, intended to make people happy to be controlled.

> I would also remind the short of memory that during covid, the states with the most draconian restrictions were mostly left-leaning, and many were loathe to give up that control. Control of the people comes from all sides This depiction of Covid restrictions (restrictions that were actually relatively permissive given the seriousness of the disease and the unknown nature of the virus at the time) as though they wer…

None of the COVID measures had any effect on public health and yet they were enforced long after that became obvious to anyone watching the graphs the government themselves published. And the nature of the virus was known within weeks of it appearing - there were no real surprises from that point on. It acted very similarly to any other respiratory virus with the only differences being the unusually steep gradient in age effects.

COVID was 100% an authoritarian power grab by public health officials. Zero percent actual health. And public health is an overwhelmingly left wing and political field, being as it is the idea that health should be managed collectively.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#446

Post by AfterHIA »

Nasrudith wrote: post #267
AfterHIA wrote: post #259

There really needs to be a Second American Revolution. It should be bloodless and as simple as 90% of the country showing up to take back the wealth that was stolen from the middle classes during the neoliberal assault. The popular momentum exists for this project in both the MAGA camp and lefties that support Sanders. It seems like the only alternative is liberal authoritarianism which we're seeing from Vance and Pe…

Ah yes, the syllogism of thieves strikes again. - You have it. I want it. Therefore you must have stolen it from me and I am justified in taking it "back". Have you read history at all? "Revolutions" by entitled thieves who feel that every transaction they agreed to is somehow retroactively unfair because somebody else has more money is the surest way to kill an economy. Nobody wants to do trade with cannibals.

Wah, wah, wah brainwashed member of the Adam Smith Society that never actually read, "Nations" obviously chiming in.

The American people are entitled to what was taken from them-- competent public education, accessible higher education and healthcare, laws preventing gross concentrations of wealth through the enforcement of anti-trust law (VC groups I'm looking at you), and for we computer dorks the use of ARPA funding to produce novel new technologies. Most or all of this is non-controversial for most Americans.

http://rand.org/pubs/working_papers/WRA516-2.html

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-histo...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._C._R._Licklider

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#447

Post by AfterHIA »

anonymousDan wrote: post #325
Nasrudith wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the syllogism of thieves strikes again. - You have it. I want it. Therefore you must have stolen it from me and I am justified in taking it "back". Have you read history at all? "Revolutions" by entitled thieves who feel that every transaction they agreed to is somehow retroactively unfair because somebody else has more money is the surest way to kill an economy. Nobody wants to do trade with cannibals.

You talk like it's the case that people with wealth never actually stole it. Yes I've read history thanks, and there are plenty of cases where it turns out for the better for the majority of people. Judge each case on its merits instead of citing fatuous truisms.

It's not a myth. This is a report from the RAND Corporation which is more than reputable which details the the effects of a massive wealth transfer that's been occurring since the early 1970's. With all due respect you haven't, "read" history beyond watching YouTube videos about the Roman Empire kiddo.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/working_papers/WRA516-2.html

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#448

Post by bdangubic »

anonymousDan wrote: post #325
Nasrudith wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the syllogism of thieves strikes again. - You have it. I want it. Therefore you must have stolen it from me and I am justified in taking it "back". Have you read history at all? "Revolutions" by entitled thieves who feel that every transaction they agreed to is somehow retroactively unfair because somebody else has more money is the surest way to kill an economy. Nobody wants to do trade with cannibals.

You talk like it's the case that people with wealth never actually stole it. Yes I've read history thanks, and there are plenty of cases where it turns out for the better for the majority of people. Judge each case on its merits instead of citing fatuous truisms.

with a comment like this we can tell you’ve “history books” as much as I’ve went on a date last night with Taylor Swift :)

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#449

Post by AfterHIA »

9dev wrote: post #387
Nasrudith wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the syllogism of thieves strikes again. - You have it. I want it. Therefore you must have stolen it from me and I am justified in taking it "back". Have you read history at all? "Revolutions" by entitled thieves who feel that every transaction they agreed to is somehow retroactively unfair because somebody else has more money is the surest way to kill an economy. Nobody wants to do trade with cannibals.

You’re on a very slippery slope yourself there. Did the native Americans "agree" to the transactions that took their land away, land they never considered something you could own in the first place? Did the African tribes converted to Christianity by colonists agree to give up their way of life? Did the peasants in feudal times agree to being servants of the aristocracy? Did the tribes in early Europe agree to submit…

The camel's back is breaking and we're already half way to right wing populist authoritarianism. Meaningful piecemeal reform is necessary but will take decades. We need a Carnation moment. People need to feel like they have a meaningful future again. This will either come as a light civil war or a mass popular movement. Choose blood. Choose not. Choose a revolution for some or a revolution for everyone. Choose soon as the time is limited.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Power_Revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_revolution_(German)

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#450

Post by _DeadFred_ »

qcnguy wrote: post #441
thrance wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's well documented that Show us, then. There's nothing as egregious as what the right is currently doing to be found in the archives, and you know it.

Go read the emails the administration was sending to Twitter demanding people be taken down left and right. Or if you want a wider view than just the US, look at what European governments demand from social media companies. It's all censorship of the right by the left, zero in reverse. But it's true that the left does not need to overtly threaten from the top as much because they already purged all the institutions o…

The Twitter files revealed the government communication to Twitter was a continuation/mirroring of communication from the previous Republican regime making requests of Twitter.

Purge? Which administration threw out all of our civil service rules and purged people as soon as they had power? Which is telling the DOJ PUBLICALLY 'there are the people you need to get convictions against because it's making us look bad? Hint, it wasn't the previous administration.

Your second paragraph is a direct indictment of the CURRENT Right wing administration, who have incorporated exactly what you condemn as part of their current plans, spoken out loud that is their plan, and have executed on this plan.

Forget the past, if what you say is bad and should be prevented, I'm here, now, agreeing with you so lets condemn this shit! We can rehash the past come next election, but let's take care of ongoing/current business today.

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