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Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

thehill.com

441–450 of 571 posts

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely open borders migration between all countries would be the biggest such market correction. If every development job was open to every qualified developer in the world, I suspect software salaries in the US would be much lower.

But they would still be higher than a chemist's salary. This has nothing to do with open borders. If you use money as a proxy, some professions will come out ahead. That's just market dynamics. The only way to avoid that is to create carve outs or normalization by profession.

I don't see how you get there. It's harder to move chemistry work than simple laptop use so chemists in the US would have less pay equalization than developers.

Why should we work to lower salaries in professions where we agree the salary is already depressed enough to lose new entrants to an easier and higher paying profession? (I think I can say this since I'm a lazy STEM drop out developer who makes more than twice what I estimated for my preferred path that I also found more challenging.)

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#442
If the hiring process is dishonest, wouldn't that be a good sign to avoid them as a potential employer?

I know I'm out here in my own space capsule, but it seems like a non-sequitur. Again, perhaps this is my own bias speaking, but wouldn't you prefer to solve your own business problems as an entrepreneur, rather than battle to be employed by someone who has the intent to screw you, so that you might have the privilege to solve biz problems for them? In both cases you have problems, but only one gives you autonomy.

Alternatively, you might look towards employers who want you and do not desire to screw you.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#443
Let me play the devil advocate here: - first, I don’t think the measures they put in place are unreasonable: publishing on newspapers, mailing your application instead of emailing or using online forms may feel outdated, but they are all standard practice in other countries. You cannot say you don’t know how to mail(!) or that reading newspapers is beneath your dignity, especially if you need a job!

-second, what is wrong with free competition on the job market between US- and non-US citizens? Competition is good for the business, isn’t it?! It should be a competition on qualification and wage, not races, your skin color or some rubber stamp on a paper. Protecting domestic workers by artificially restricting competition risks creating complacency, higher costs, and slower growth.

- I hear you say: but it’s our country! We (or our parents) paid tax to build it. Yes, but if companies hire non-US employees, they will pay good tax, rent housing, spend in local economies, and contribute to Social Security and Medicare, too, while often receiving less in return.

- many foreign students already invest heavily in the U.S. by paying high tuition and living expenses, without subsidies. This is not charity; it’s a deliberate transfer of wealth into American universities and communities. Denying them a fair chance to compete for jobs means taking their money while closing the door to long-term participation, which is both unfair and economically wasteful.

- intentionally barring foreign talent to artificially inflate wages for domestic workers undermines U.S. competitiveness. High labor costs without corresponding productivity gains make companies sluggish and less adaptive to global competition. The U.S. became great by being open to talent and ideas from everywhere, reversing that openness risks slow growth and stagnation.

The real solution is domestic reform, not exclusion, for example by redistributing wealth more fairly through tax reforms that ensure the rich contribute proportionally.

America grew strong by opening its doors to talent and competition. Shutting out qualified foreign workers to protect wages may feel safe in the short run, but in the long run it weakens our economy, breeds complacency, and wastes the very investment we’ve already taken from those who studied and contributed here. If we want Americans to compete better, fix student debt and inequality at home, but don’t impede the nation by closing the market to global talents.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#444
post #333
post #273

Why is hiding the jobs necessary? I applied for one of these jobs years ago. The recruiter told, "I have no idea how you applied for this job, but its not available for you. let me have you interview a different, but similar, role." What was I supposed to do other than say, "ok! Send over the other job description."?

“What do you mean it’s not available to me?”

They don't have to answer this. The lady told me the job posting was in a "weird system" and quickly moved the conversation to other open roles.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#445

A lot of these problems could be solved if H1-B's were given out in order of salary (I think there's such a proposal going around recently). And by that I mean: something like a Dutch auction. Give H1-Bs to the top 85K paying jobs (maybe normalized to SoL in the region, I'm sure the BLS has some idea on how to do it). The lure of H1-Bs is the money savings, and the fact that if you're on an H1-B, you're practically a…

Except this isn't about H1B this is about the PERM process for EB2/EB3 greencards. The truth is we should be much more open to temporary work permits, and much less open to this sort of thing for granting permanent residency. Tons of people getting employment based green cards hold jobs that could easily be filled by an American.

> Tons of people getting employment based green cards hold jobs that could easily be filled by an American.

Could be filled by an American, sure. Is the American willing to do the work? Probably not...

This is not a uniquely American problem.

In tech, I've always felt it was hard to hire Americans because it seems there's such a push for degrees in business/law etcetera as opposed to engineering.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#446

Let me play the devil advocate here: - first, I don’t think the measures they put in place are unreasonable: publishing on newspapers, mailing your application instead of emailing or using online forms may feel outdated, but they are all standard practice in other countries. You cannot say you don’t know how to mail(!) or that reading newspapers is beneath your dignity, especially if you need a job! -second, what is…

The problem is the inconsistencies. Fine, if a company wants to source talent from a news paper, great! But to only make postings in hard to find places, away from where the 'good' talent looks is bad.

The problem is its not a free competition. I applied for one of these jobs 2 years ago, but a company was trying to sponsor a green card for an internal employee. The recruiter said I can't interview for that team, but I could interview for another similar, but different role. These companies aren't even offering interviews for these jobs!

> many foreign students

Schools limit how many people can attend. Foreign students take seats away from American students. These programs deny American students a chance to compete for American jobs before they even start college. An American student, rejected from Stanford, will not have as strong of a job application as the foreign Stanford graduate.

Maybe the foreign student was more qualified and wasn't an affirmative action case. Maybe the university doesn't select % of students to be foreign to help subsidize the costs of american students. I don't know.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#447
post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this isn't about H1B this is about the PERM process for EB2/EB3 greencards. The truth is we should be much more open to temporary work permits, and much less open to this sort of thing for granting permanent residency. Tons of people getting employment based green cards hold jobs that could easily be filled by an American.

> Tons of people getting employment based green cards hold jobs that could easily be filled by an American. Could be filled by an American, sure. Is the American willing to do the work? Probably not... This is not a uniquely American problem. In tech, I've always felt it was hard to hire Americans because it seems there's such a push for degrees in business/law etcetera as opposed to engineering.

Americans would be more willing to do the work if they salary was higher, and the salary would be higher if the supply of workers was reduced due to not allowing cheap imported labor.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#448

Old news. This has been going on for decades. If you even look badly on youtube you will find corporate videos from "HR Consultants" teaching companies how to bury job listings so noone will be likely to find them. Your country sold you down the river 30 years ago.

Semi-related: reminds me of reports that public tenders in Russia had to be submitted into a central portal according to law, but to prevent anyone from finding them, various Unicode tricks would be applied to the document to replace characters and prevent effective searching.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#449
post #201

Old news. This has been going on for decades. If you even look badly on youtube you will find corporate videos from "HR Consultants" teaching companies how to bury job listings so noone will be likely to find them. Your country sold you down the river 30 years ago.

For those curious, a common method is to publish the job listing in the newspaper classifieds. This is what my old employer did to sponsor the visa for the company’s CTO. Newspapers are used for a surprising number of various public announcements. E.g. in New York you must publish a notice in a newspaper for 6 weeks (or something like that) when establishing a LLC. There’s something to be said for reading the paper e…

In Poland a while ago, a basketball club submitted an opening to local labor office, looking for "basketball player with 5 years of NBA experience".

Update: source: https://radioszczecin-pl.translate.goog/1,116784,koszykarze-...

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#450
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re admitting that applying for jobs they should be able to get , in a place they should be able to apply in , under federal law is not going to work? Sounds like fraud to me. Or a crime of some sort. If they do it, and it clearly doesn’t work, it even sounds like something they could take to court. In fact, something that is perhaps their duty to take to court.

You're reading too much into it. It's a case of bad UX. The jobs do not exist. The actual job application/interview etc. happened years ago, when it did exist, and everyone, including locals, had the same shot at it. When the job existed, someone was hired for it, and it happened to be someone on a visa. In order to keep that person employed in this job and get them a green card, the government requires that the job…

That is not a UX issue, that is blatant immigration fraud my man.

The reason they are required to readvertise is because the visa they are on is for jobs that cannot be filled by a local, so if the job can actually be filled by a local, that person should lose the visa and have to leave (or find another job that supports them being here).

That isn’t a technicality, except the prior admins allowed it to be.

Does that suck for the person on the visa? Yeah. But guess what, it also sucks for the unemployed locals.

So either the gov’t actively throws locals under the bus, or follows the rules.

When everything is going up and to the right, or no one can see why they’re struggling, it’s easy to gloss over these ‘small details’. But they’re not so small in reality, eh?

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