Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses • Hacker News Board

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#441

Post by timr » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 5:43 AM UTC

strbean wrote: post #265

timr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, much like every restaurant that becomes popular, anywhere in the world? No, but thanks for the spot-on imitation of an entitled foreign visitor. The insinuation that somehow it's the local people's fault that they don't want their quaint neighborhood restaurants to become McDonald's is indeed part of the problem. Many restaurants in Japan (my friend's included) are quite obviously one-man, standing-room only op…

> No, but thanks for the spot-on imitation of an entitled foreign visitor. The insinuation that somehow it's the local people's fault that they don't want their quaint neighborhood restaurants to become McDonald's is indeed part of the problem. This seems a little unfair. I think the parent was talking more about restaurants in big cities. In Tokyo, lines down the block are extremely common, and the lines are primari…

GGP is responding to my own anecdote, about my own friend who runs a small neighborhood restaurant that is now overrun with tourists.

I don't think I misinterpreted the response.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#442

Post by Pooge » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 5:44 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #379

Pooge wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you can't read Japanese, you would enter because you don't understand the sign in the first place...

You obviously didn't click through to look at the sign, which says in both Japanese and English 'No vacancy', with the language endorsement in smaller text at the bottom.

Indeed I didn't. Reddit is blocked on my network.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#443

Post by timr » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 5:50 AM UTC

the_af wrote: post #405

timr wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So effectively the advice becomes "stay at home, don't vacation, or if you do vacation stay at some prepackaged place". I didn't expect it to be a popular take, but I feel like the "sightseeing travel" model is varying degrees of bankrupt, and I'm not apologizing for my opinion. Having lived in a number of tourist hotspots in my life, I've come to the conclusion that almost nothing one encounters in a tourist setti…

It's not Disneyland, what's with the mania of taking everything to extremes? > You don't have to do a "prepackaged vacation", but do something more substantial than moving around constantly and looking at stuff through a camera -- volunteer, take a course, attend a conference, teach English...whatever! Just go there for a reason other than "being a tourist". The hell? We're discussing vacationing, not volunteer work.…

I am giving/defending my opinion, in an effort to convince. It doesn't have to be yours.

> What's wrong with tourism, seeing Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto?

I just spent several paragraphs answering that question. TL;DR: a few days/weeks of lightweight entertainment for you does real damage to the places you visit. The ethical traveler should strive for something better than photos.

> I don't get more than 2 weeks vacation where I work, I should use them to volunteer according to you?

I am saying that my opinion is that "tourism" is more-or-less ethically bankrupt. You don't have to do anything in response, and in any case, I was pretty explicit that volunteering was only one of many possible alternatives -- but you knew this, because you quoted me saying it.

It's not a high bar. Visiting friends or doing a specific activity (rock climbing! diving! fishing! sports! cooking! meditation retreat! make art! take a class! gain a skill!) would be a perfectly ethical reason to travel somewhere, in my humble opinion. Almost anything is better than piling into to the same few tourist sites and taking the same few photos that everyone else takes. And you'll have more fun, too.

> I swear, the first world entitlement in some of these comments

Having the luxury to travel is a "first-world entitlement." It isn't entitlement to say that you should strive to be more thoughtful about the costs.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#444

Post by franciscop » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 6:05 AM UTC

blibble wrote: post #84

franciscop wrote: post #67

I find Japan a bit strange about these "making profit" topics. I still don't fully grasp how it's possible so many of these business that "poured much of their life savings into opening these places, taken out loans" don't rejoice and raise their prices (a bit? a lot?), making them able to do this thing they are doing, much better. Heck invite the regulars to the 2nd drink with that extra money that is coming in now…

> Here there is the opportunity of a lifetime, and many Japan business are straight out rejecting the money that comes pouring in. because not everyone cares firstly about money? the article is quite clear, the woman wanted to open a business to serve her friends and locals now she can't do that, and is understandably upset

I know, I'm totally fine with that, but then don't bring money into the article like those people are burdened economically by these tourists, you cannot have it both ways.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#445

Post by eunos » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 6:12 AM UTC

anon-3988 wrote: post #158

_fat_santa wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it's not that travel is to cheap, it's that social media has created "hot spots" around the globe. Take a random example: 5 cute coffee shops around Paris, all of them have that Parisian vibe that tourists are looking for but one of them had an influencer walk in and make some content. Now that one shop is all over the internet and tourists are flocking to it, creating huge lines and overwhelming the business, wh…

> The problem I see isn't that travel is democratized, it's that people are lazy at planning their trips and just go on social media and find these "hot spots" instead of actually doing their homework or heck even a little exploring around the city. The problem is people are shallow. People are _actively_ seeking the queue. I know because I know people that are like this. They want to be part of the queue because...I…

The same reasons why folks prefer buying things on Amazon (or Walmart). It is renown and you know that it will have what you need and qualities are reasonably guaranteed.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#446

Post by eunos » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 6:16 AM UTC

blibble wrote: post #84

franciscop wrote: post #67

I find Japan a bit strange about these "making profit" topics. I still don't fully grasp how it's possible so many of these business that "poured much of their life savings into opening these places, taken out loans" don't rejoice and raise their prices (a bit? a lot?), making them able to do this thing they are doing, much better. Heck invite the regulars to the 2nd drink with that extra money that is coming in now…

> Here there is the opportunity of a lifetime, and many Japan business are straight out rejecting the money that comes pouring in. because not everyone cares firstly about money? the article is quite clear, the woman wanted to open a business to serve her friends and locals now she can't do that, and is understandably upset

>because not everyone cares firstly about money?

You better care money first and foremost because when downturns came it could be devastating, remember the great lockdown?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#447

Post by Pooge » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 6:18 AM UTC

pezezin wrote: post #382

Pooge wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nomihodai I think this is for economic/profit reasons. I am not a strong drinker at all but I can drink 4-5 [X] sour but my Japanese friends were already well intoxicated with 1 or 2 beers ...

Then your friends are quite weak, because I know plenty of Japanese people who drink like sponges... my GF among them, she is your average short Japanese lady and yet she can drink twice as much a me o_O

I think you got it the other way; your girlfriend is quite a strong drinker.

Every Asian I've met gets a red face from their first glass of wine. Of course I'm not saying that every Asian must be like that. However it's well known that they're not heavy drinkers (compared to, let's say, an average English, Nordic or Russian drinker).

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#448

Post by strbean » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 6:52 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #441

strbean wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, but thanks for the spot-on imitation of an entitled foreign visitor. The insinuation that somehow it's the local people's fault that they don't want their quaint neighborhood restaurants to become McDonald's is indeed part of the problem. This seems a little unfair. I think the parent was talking more about restaurants in big cities. In Tokyo, lines down the block are extremely common, and the lines are primari…

GGP is responding to my own anecdote, about my own friend who runs a small neighborhood restaurant that is now overrun with tourists. I don't think I misinterpreted the response.

So you disagree that popular restaurants have long lines regardless of foreign tourists?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#449

Post by Klonoar » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 7:42 AM UTC

ddejohn wrote: post #353

Klonoar wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you experience this in Tokyo, you're dealing with the fact that it's a truly global city and you're not venturing off the tourist path enough. It's definitely still a thing in some parts of Tokyo to have few-to-no westerners. Kyoto was never going to be able to deal with the level of tourism that it's currently struggling with, though. My friends and I refuse to even stop there now - and I tried to get some friend…

> I tried to get some friends who visited recently to avoid it in favor of some other culturally significant spots Any tips for somebody looking to visit Japan in the next year or so?

Old-fashioned-guidebooks, like the other commenter said, can be useful... but IMO it's a gamble.

One option if you're looking to avoid Kyoto, but want something that still feels sufficiently old world, is Kanazawa. You can take the Shinkansen from Tokyo to get there; ever since this line was opened it also has its fair share of tourists, but it's way less popular than Kyoto and IMO very nice. Old Samurai town out on the western coast of Japan.

If you want history that's more somber, and you're already visiting Osaka, just take the Shinkansen a bit further down to Hiroshima. The atomic bomb museum there is IMO required viewing for seeing and understanding the impact those events had. The Nagasaki one was even more powerful of an exhibit, but frankly to go to Nagasaki you need to fly (a Shinkansen exists but it's not a fully connected route at this time).

I'm out drinking at the moment so I'm not about to write a novel, but whenever you go to book your stuff you can feel free to email me (should be in my profile) and I'd be happy to help figure things out. People should visit Japan - I don't ever want to gatekeep it; I just think people should avoid chasing the same beaten path. :)

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#450

Post by crakhamster01 » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 7:50 AM UTC

There's undoubtedly a cohort of tourists that come to Japan with the "Disneyland" mindset, and I agree that some sort of government-level change is needed to curb abuse. But I would like to believe these folks are in the minority.

I think a greater proportion of the tourist population are individuals that visit Japan and maybe haven't done enough research, or are just unaware of norms here. Not understanding where to queue, how to order, navigate public transport, what to do at a temple, onsen, etc. This group isn't the 15% of "Best in Class tourists" Craig writes about, but rather the 75% that want to be respectful and don't know any better.

Many locals/expats will see this group and look down in disdain (or lament about them in a blog post...), but why don't more people just ask if they need help? It takes little effort to point someone in the right direction, and if it helps them better understand the country it's a win-win for both tourists and residents alike.

I feel like people love to talk about how considerate Japanese culture is, but don't care to practice it themselves when given the chance.