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Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

proton.me

441–450 of 665 posts

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#441

Reply to a couple hundred comments: You don’t have to be a monopoly to be deemed to be acting in an anti-competitive manner. Just dominant by some significant measure, in some significant dimension, enough for many people to complain. And for a judge to review the practices and find the company is leveraging that dominance to maintain dominance or hold dominance over adjacent markets in a way that is blocking competi…

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any versions of iOS without jailbreak exploits in them? The security was always theatre.

I think all recent iOS versions have no public jailbreak exploits.

There are jailbreaks available for iOS 16.6.1 (released in 2023), and every iOS version prior to it. I count that as "recent", though I understand either way.

Recent versions of iOS have specific anti-jailbreak mechanisms (anti-downgrade mechanisms, ephemeral root filesystems) which don't provide general security, so they're sort of cheating. These mechanisms just mean it's harder to use the vulnerabilities for good, without significantly stymieing evil. (And they aren't wholly effective, seeing as 16.6.1 contains all of them, and it's still got a semi-untethered jailbreak.)

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#443
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most evil thing a tech company has done is make a proprietary messaging app? Apple didn't make SMS bad, it just was. Apple has since implemented RCS and it hasn't changed how I communicate with people from my iPhone at all. Google should probably take most of the blame for repeatedly fumbling messaging on non-Apple platforms for the past 2 decades. Every time they had something that was getting any amount of trac…

How did you manage to shift the conversation to Google in a thread about Apple?

Because there are exactly two players in the game, and we’re in a thread under a whiny hyperbolic diatribe from someone that had the former.

Why didn’t Google deliver an alternative to iMessage? Did they choose not to? Is it actually hard? Are they just too incompetent at making software that isn’t for running infrastructure?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If businesses don't have to offer the more consumer friendly option, they won't offer it.

That’s an unsupportable claim. If customers want to pay more for Apple to facilitate, there isn’t an incentive to not keep apps in the App Store too. If a company has other reasons not to be in Apple’s store, why should they be required to?

> > If businesses don't have to offer the more consumer friendly option, they won't offer it.

> That’s an unsupportable claim.

It's supported well enough in my view by a long history of sleaze that apparently people have forgotten.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point was that if Google weren't so inept, iMessage wouldn't be such a monopoly And you know, maybe they have a point. I especially think about Microsoft and MSN Messenger/Skype. How do you fumble away not one but two dominant messaging apps?

OP's point is about Apple intentionally fragmenting communication in social groups as an ecosystem play (trickling down to bullying starting in grade school etc) so Google's messaging marketshare would only be relevant if there was some reason to believe it would have cowed Apple into interoperating.

iMessage wouldn’t need to interoperate. Look at WhatsApp, works great on iOS and Android and dominates the market in a lot of the world.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting. Not every problem is technological.

It should be possible to open up the “Cancel Subscription” feature/button to apps using other payment providers. Maybe even keep that in as a requirement for all payment providers?

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am not a specialist on the matter, I don't think Antitrust regulations have anything to do with market share. It's whether you are engaging in anticompetitive behavior or not.

Market share is a commmon practical enabler of anti-competitive behavior. It’s leverage.

Well, wenare talking about what is essentially a duopoly in the smartphone market. Apple has enough market presence for their anticompetitive behavior to trigger antitrust laws, especially considering that smartphones are inevitable in current times.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting. Not every problem is technological.

I think that is better solved with regulations, but I'm not from the US.

Indeed, but the US is violently opposed to enacting the ones required, so now what?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#449
post #270

> Companies that monetize user data in exchange for “free” services that abuse your privacy aren’t affected by this [the app store tax], as they don’t process payments through the App Store. However, privacy-first companies that monetize through subscriptions are disproportionately hit by this fee, putting a major barrier toward the adoption of privacy-first business models. Huh. I’ve never seen it framed this way an…

Yes, in a way it's a rather good argument. But if you take it to its conclusion, if Apple finds it harder and harder to monetize the App Store through fees, then THEY might eventually decide to switch to privacy violating advertising as their revenue strategy.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, Roblox by far and away is worse than Apple. But also, Facebook is pretty clearly implicated in a genocide in Myanmar. It's difficult for me to put any genocide in a bucket less important than some kids being put into out-groups.

The difference is that those evil things are second order effects. Nobody in the executive suite at FB was saying "Damn, this genocide is super profitable, let's stole the flames". Nobody at Roblox is saying "We want to have children do nothing else except play Roblox from dawn to dusk, we lobby against schooling and extra-curiculars to increase Roblox time" Apple however very intentionally made messaging people not…

People at Roblox absolutely try to get children to spend more time and money on the platform. Why would you think they don’t?
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