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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#441

Post by breppp »

arp242 wrote: post #427
breppp wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The difference is that e.g. Māori or native Americans and whatnot are full citizens with full rights. The "founded on ethnic cleansing" is not the most important bit from the previous post. It's the "ethnic cleansing and denial of rights has continued ever since" that's the most important bit.

No, the difference is that the native population of western countries very much disappeared, because this was an actual genocide their percent of population is now negligible.

While the Palestinian population in Israel proper is around 25% with full rights, while those under the control of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas have rights in their respective political entity.

Again there are other examples of countries where the population lost all rights and were expelled like germans in czechoslovakia and poland or greeks from turkey

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#442

Post by justin66 »

People ought to understand that this problem of innocent Gazans - often children - being fired upon by IDF soldiers isn't a new one, it predates the current food distribution operation.

An article from October in the NY Times detailing some well-documented atrocities ("44 health care workers saw multiple cases of preteen children who had been shot in the head or chest in Gaza") was published as an opinion piece, in spite of the fact that it consisted of dozens of eyewitness accounts. [0][1]

The incomparable sway that Israel holds in American media and American politics prevents pressure to hold those responsible accountable on an international level. When there's enough pressure within Israel to demand accountability for something terrible (and that's rare enough, outside of their peace movement) the conclusion drawn is typically that the soldiers are just careless, but not acting with malice. [2] If there's a single instance of an IDF soldier being held accountable for a civilian killing in this conflict, someone could make me feel a little better by sharing it.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-...

[1] https://archive.is/9Lr00

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Alon_Shamriz,_Yotam...

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#443

Post by arp242 »

cladopa wrote: post #205

[flagged]

It's just not true that this is "normal procedure". It's just not. It didn't happen before either, and now it's happened how many times? Once or twice, I can believe. This many times? Not so much.

And this line of reasoning:

> If you don't shoot them they will take a sack by force, and then everybody will take a sack by force. Usually they coordinate themselves into bands or gangs to steal the food.

is just dehumanising and morally abject.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#444

Post by pydry »

breppp wrote: post #398
Newtonip wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a state founded on ethnic cleansing. People were already living there when settlers came to create an ethno-state for themselves. In late 1947, their militias begun a campaign of massacring and expelling Palestinians from mostly defenseless villages. These refuges pouring into neighboring Arab countries is what prompted the 1948 war. When the war ended, they murdered any civilians trying to return to their homes…

[flagged]

>they have ethnically cleansed the Jews like in Hebron

Have you been to Hebron? I'd highly encourage it because you will see literally the most vile state sponsored racists in the western world.

The ethnic cleansing is not as violent as the gazan genocide but it ought to make any person with a conscience sick to the stomach. You walk around looking up at the settlement guards (more of them than there are settlers) pointing guns at you from guard towers as the racist settlers living above literally throw trash down on the Palestinian untermensch living below them.

Every year they squeeze Palestinians who live and work there further and further out.

It's also the home of the venerated terrorist Baruch Goldstein (10% of Israelis consider him a hero because he shot up a mosque), his shrine and Itamir ben Gvir - the national security minister who idolized him.

After seeing that place I became convinced that if anywhere was going to commit a nazi style genocide it would be israel. 8 years later thats exactly what happened.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#447

Post by arp242 »

mpweiher wrote: post #314

[flagged]

So there's a substantial difference between "firing towards masses" (comprised of Palestinians) and "firing at Palestinians"?

Laughable spin.

I think that's also what they said on Bloody Sunday: not firing "at Catholic protestors", but firing "towards the masses".

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#448

Post by pydry »

xg15 wrote: post #222
lottin wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it even mean 'to want nothing more than to end the conflict'? As far as I can tell it doesn't mean anything. Everybody wants the conflict to end, including the Israelis and the Palestinians. They just want it to end differently, of course.

In theory, we want to end it through the Two-State Solution (though even what this means is vague - certainty not the borders of 1967 that Palestinians and Arabs are demanding) But yeah, in practice, we seem to want it to end with full Israeli dominance, and the Palestinians either emigrating to Egypt and Jordan or vanishing into thin air, I suppose.

In precisely the same way that the Nazis wanted their conflict to end with Jews emigrating to Africa (Madagascar according to their original plan) or vanishing into thin air.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#449

Post by Newtonip »

breppp wrote: post #398
Newtonip wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a state founded on ethnic cleansing. People were already living there when settlers came to create an ethno-state for themselves. In late 1947, their militias begun a campaign of massacring and expelling Palestinians from mostly defenseless villages. These refuges pouring into neighboring Arab countries is what prompted the 1948 war. When the war ended, they murdered any civilians trying to return to their homes…

[flagged]

> Facts is that most of the palestinians fled in the earlier phases of the war, and the very little instances of forced evacuation of the population where within the borders of Israel/Palestine, not out of the country.

People don't leave their homes voluntarily. They leave because of violence or fear of violence. The fact is there were Palestinians living all over the map at the "before" stage. Settlers came to form an ethno-state. The orders given to the Zionist militia commanders were literally "cleanse" this or that village. In the "after" stage, all these people are gone from most of the map and the ones trying to return to their homes are shot dead.

That is ethnic cleansing period. The goal was to create an ethno-state in a place where people already lived. These people have been getting confined to smaller and smaller areas ever since. And the oppression continues to this day.

> Regarding the "State founded on ethnic cleaning", in recent times this includes entire South America, parts of Africa, United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

So what? What's your point?

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